Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 13:56:12 GMT -6
Have to wonder if this will have any impact on the SD schools with both ND schools offering COA.
|
|
|
Post by Yote 53 on Sept 2, 2015 14:24:15 GMT -6
If we want to compete, yes it will. Either we have to follow suit or just accept the fact the better recruits are going to end up choosing the schools in the north over the schools in the south.
|
|
|
Post by Yotes on Sept 2, 2015 14:42:11 GMT -6
It might not be a stretch to think the SD schools will have funds in place to do the same in time for the 2016-17 year.
|
|
|
Post by Yote 53 on Sept 29, 2015 8:51:08 GMT -6
Yotemeal, I changed the name of this topic as it has evolved into more than just a discussion about NDSU offering FCOA. USD and UND have also come out and stated they will offer FCOA to all of their scholarship athletes starting next year. The only Dakota school lagging behind in this subject is SDSU. One can debate the need for FCS schools to offer this. FCS is supposed to be about cost containment, which I still believe it is since we offer less football scholarship than FBS schools, hence it is cheaper to be D1 FCS. My take, though, is that we are a Division 1 school. As a D1 school we are competing with other D1 schools in all sports. In order for basketball, softball, track, volleyball, etc to be competitive in recruiting, and hence on the field of play, FCOA will need to be offered. If you are offering for all other sports, why should football players be treated any differently? Because we are FCS and not FBS? Not to take away from what other sports do but I can tell you that football athletes put in a heck of alot of time and sacrifice to their sport. All our athletes do. All our athletes should be treated the same when it comes to FCOA.
Initially UND came out with FCOA only for their hockey teams. They have since expanded it to all sports. UNI came out with it for basketball. They still have not come out with any plan for offering it for football and some other sports. It is every schools choice as to how they want to handle this but I can tell you I would be peeved to be a football player at UNI where the basketball teams are getting more than I am for being a student-athlete.
I will say this, if NDSU did not lead on this issue and push it for FCS schools in this area then I don't thing USD or UND would be offering FCOA. We have to in order to compete with the Bison. In that respect, we should thank NDSU in forcing us all to achieve to a higher level.
If you go around to different message boards you get different takes on this subject. Over at Bisonville most are pretty vocal about the subject. If you don't want to offer FCOA maybe you shouldn't be in D1, and if anyone tries to restrict us from offering it we'll rebel, is a common viewpoint there.
Many UNI fans think the MVFC should step in and set a rule not allowing FCOA. I don't actually think they can legally do that, but that is what some of their fans want. Why is that? Because UNI can't afford it for football. I've followed athletic funding in the state of Iowa for years, being a Hawkeye fan. Some UNI fans talk about going FBS and joining the MAC. I've countered they are more likely to go non-scholarship FCS and join Drake in the Pioneer than go to the MAC. They don't have the money for football, and this is proof they don't have the money. Now they want the conference to make a rule because they know NDSU, USD, and any other school that offers FCOA for football will pass them right by. UNI needs to make some hard choices about reallocating some funds away from basketball and towards football, or will they de-emphasize fooball and go all in on basketball?
Seems that UND and USD are both more silent on the subject, just coming out and saying, yeah, we're going to do it, and that's about it. Pretty low key on the subject, especially at USD.
The SDSU Bunny Board is another matter. It ranges from the Jacks needing to do this, to the "we don't want those types of players here if they are basing their decision on comin g to SDSU on how much money they can get", must be that "Stig recruit" thing, the holier than thou attitude shines through with those folks. Most of them are overly concerned about USD and how we are doing this and they are not...yet. Always like the Jacks to worry about what we are doing and how we are paying for stuff. I don't ever post on the SDSU board anymore because I feel it is a waste of time, but I'd like to tell them to quit worrying about us, we'll be fine.
There is simply a different way of doing things at these two schools. SDSU will announce a big plan, they will take input from the entire state, they will publish drawings, schematics, funding plans, etc. for every single thing. Then they will constantly publish updates on their projects and be very vocal in the regular and social media. SDSU will eventually come out with a plan for FCOA. They will make a big deal out of it. They will announce its funding structure, probably name it after another Dyhouse or Sanford. The Argus will slober all over the Jacks in their coverage. USD just operates differently. There are less people involved, most of the funding is put in place early, a project is announced, and boom, it's done. Just. Like. That. We don't really talk about things, we just do them. The entire campus has practically been rebuilt in just that manner and I think that is just fine. One thing I have learned is to not underestimate the USD Foundation in their ability to raise money and to not underestimate the numbers of well heeled USD alumni. I will also say this, I don't think there are two guys who could put all this together like our President Abbott and Ted Muenster. Two tremendous assets to the University whose impact will be felt for the next 100 years.
|
|
|
Post by yote14 on Sept 29, 2015 13:20:38 GMT -6
It's nice to see Abbott and Herbster making a lot of these decisions. It's a must for our success and nice to see they are on the same page with making it happen.
I know in the past USD has not always funded athletics like they probably should have. At the DII level you could get away with it. It's nice to see they know you cant get away from it at the DI level and are doing everything possible as fast as possible to give us an edge.
Any wabbit fan that questions how USD is doing FCOA and the bunnies are not need to look at the two schools endowments again. We have always had significantly more money with a much smaller alumni base. The last time I checked our endowment was twice the size of theirs. Having for real majors pays off after all. I agree it is only a matter of time before they do it as well.
Interesting stuff regarding UNI not doing FCOA for their football program only basketball.
|
|
|
Post by Yotes on Sept 29, 2015 15:28:00 GMT -6
I find it hard to believe UNI doesn't have the $ to do this for football. More power to us if they can't though, I suppose. Time will tell if this stipend is much of a game changer. They'll find the money if it is.
|
|
|
Post by jacksfan29 on Sept 29, 2015 17:06:37 GMT -6
I find it hard to believe UNI doesn't have the $ to do this for football. More power to us if they can't though, I suppose. Time will tell if this stipend is much of a game changer. They'll find the money if it is. UNI pays their Men's BB coach 7 figures. Their assistants may make more than our head coaches. Playing in the MVC and being at the top is not cheap. They are also in a state where they are the third wheel after Iowa and Iowa State. If I recall, there are also issues with state funding that have come up in the past. I don't know if they have the money to pay for football, or if they want to make the investment to do it in football. They aren't alone in FCS.
|
|
|
Post by Yotes on Sept 29, 2015 17:59:38 GMT -6
I find it hard to believe UNI doesn't have the $ to do this for football. More power to us if they can't though, I suppose. Time will tell if this stipend is much of a game changer. They'll find the money if it is. UNI pays their Men's BB coach 7 figures. Their assistants may make more than our head coaches. Playing in the MVC and being at the top is not cheap. They are also in a state where they are the third wheel after Iowa and Iowa State. If I recall, there are also issues with state funding that have come up in the past. I don't know if they have the money to pay for football, or if they want to make the investment to do it in football. They aren't alone in FCS. Their head (football) coach makes like $350k. The only way they don't have money for FCOA is if the AD is putting every spare dollar into the basketball program - which could be true with their basketball head coach on contact to earn an average of $900k per year through 2025.
|
|
|
Post by jackl on Sept 29, 2015 19:32:13 GMT -6
It's nice to see Abbott and Herbster making a lot of these decisions. It's a must for our success and nice to see they are on the same page with making it happen. I know in the past USD has not always funded athletics like they probably should have. At the DII level you could get away with it. It's nice to see they know you cant get away from it at the DI level and are doing everything possible as fast as possible to give us an edge. Any wabbit fan that questions how USD is doing FCOA and the bunnies are not need to look at the two schools endowments again. We have always had significantly more money with a much smaller alumni base. The last time I checked our endowment was twice the size of theirs. Having for real majors pays off after all. I agree it is only a matter of time before they do it as well. Interesting stuff regarding UNI not doing FCOA for their football program only basketball. Pretty sure this has been talked about here before ,but your schools endowment isn't a fund where you can just take money out and hand it to your athletic department.For the most part people set these endowments up with specific benefactors in mind.Some might benefit the athletic program,the vast majority don't.
|
|
|
Post by Yote 53 on Sept 29, 2015 19:52:57 GMT -6
I think it speaks more to the fact the USD Foundation does a tremendous job with fundraising and the money is out there in our alumni base. Basically, we have resources to tap into and a means to do so.
|
|
|
Post by Cousin Eddie on Sept 29, 2015 19:57:47 GMT -6
Let's not twist this into something it isn't. SDSU will be offering this as soon as reasonably possible. The material difference at this point is that, for whatever reason, their FCOA is $9000, where as it is about half for the other Dakota schools. That is the number they report to FAFSA in the federal government. It is not easily altered.
|
|
|
Post by jackl on Sept 29, 2015 20:12:33 GMT -6
Let's not twist this into something it isn't. SDSU will be offering this as soon as reasonably possible. The material difference at this point is that, for whatever reason, their FCOA is $9000, where as it is about half for the other Dakota schools. That is the number they report to FAFSA in the federal government. It is not easily altered. Our AD says it's about $5K, around $ 1 million for all sports.
|
|
|
Post by GoYotes on Sept 29, 2015 20:12:35 GMT -6
Let's not twist this into something it isn't. SDSU will be offering this as soon as reasonably possible. The material difference at this point is that, for whatever reason, their FCOA is $9000, where as it is about half for the other Dakota schools. That is the number they report to FAFSA in the federal government. It is not easily altered. That number doesn't pass the smell test. Are you sure it is accurate?
|
|
|
Post by Yotes on Sept 29, 2015 20:57:19 GMT -6
Let's not twist this into something it isn't. SDSU will be offering this as soon as reasonably possible. The material difference at this point is that, for whatever reason, their FCOA is $9000, where as it is about half for the other Dakota schools. That is the number they report to FAFSA in the federal government. It is not easily altered. Our AD says it's about $5K, around $ 1 million for all sports. I would think $5k is rounding up a bit (and that $9k just can't be right), but I guess I have no idea how this number is calculated. I know the cost of living in Brookings is nearly identical to Vermillion from my time up there, but perhaps each school uses a different formula.
|
|
|
Post by jacksfan29 on Sept 29, 2015 21:27:11 GMT -6
I think it speaks more to the fact the USD Foundation does a tremendous job with fundraising and the money is out there in our alumni base. Basically, we have resources to tap into and a means to do so. Then why ask the students for money to fund your athletic department? Just call the foundation and say you need a few million to catch up with the other schools in South and North Dakota? Sorry, you started this with the your earlier post. The reality is so far USD doesn't have the money to pay for FCOA. Your President, when asked stated it would be the Howling Pack who would help pay for it. You are correct in your earlier post. SDSU will do it. We will wait to make the announcement when we have the money. That's how we do things. Its why we have had a pretty successful transition into the D1 world. Not NDSU successful but we have made the FB playoffs multiple years. Our Men and Women BB teams have played in multiple NCAA tournaments, baseball and volleyball have both made it into the NCAA tournament, a lot of new facilities including IPF, FB stadium, baseball field, softball field, soon upgrades to Frost. An NBA draftee, some guys in the NFL, couple major league BB players, all since moving up. I'm comfortable with how our adm has handled things. I will be comfortable when they do FCOA, the right way.
|
|