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Post by aldewitt on May 12, 2019 4:38:47 GMT -6
I always read Sioux Volleys thread on SS.com and have often retrieved links and quotes for this thread. SV is a controversial expert and central source of information on conference realignments @ siouxsports.com. There is a lot of input on realignments from some posters from this board too. That conversation is going on in a lot of places.
There was another post later in the thread making an interesting point. When D2 reduced scholarships to 36 they were pushing out NDSU and a few other power schools. That was called the NDSU rule. Some programs had outgrown D2. Like the MIAC they took action. So schools get pushed along as they outgrow their environment. That’s how the Summit survived when they picked up the Dakota Big 3.
UND was run out of the BSC and they were happy to go. The travel was too expensive for all involved. There was no payoff only higher costs. It appears there may be practical budgetary limits to the geographical expanse of an FCS conference. If UND and the BSC are to be criticized it is for mismanagement and not realizing it before they jumped off the cliff.
Sioux Volley claims high guarantees would pay the FBS bills in a realignment between the BSC/MVFC into an FBS deal. That doesn’t work because you have to pay those guarantees too. Unless there are significant new revenue streams reorganization for that deal is a dead duck.
That realization brings us back to Augie. They appear to be a viable candidate for the Summit and their location is cost effective, if not profitable, for other teams in the league.
That means no UNC who has already fled their high travel costs of the old NCC or New Mexico State that has probably learned the lesson from the BSC. Our future is here and the NSIC is the Summits farm conference. I believe it will be back to the future for the Summit, the NCC is calling and wants it’s legacy back.
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Post by Yote 53 on May 22, 2019 10:46:51 GMT -6
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Post by Yotes on May 22, 2019 12:27:42 GMT -6
100% agree, let's chase after St Thomas. |
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Post by Yote 53 on May 22, 2019 12:45:09 GMT -6
I don't think we need to chase after them but they would be a good long term addition to the conference. We'd be getting a Creighton-like school on the ground floor.
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Post by aldewitt on May 22, 2019 15:03:33 GMT -6
They are D3 and a long way off from D1 but Augie opens a spot in the D2 NSIC when/if they move. Timing is right.
St Thomas is an old NCC member and they will fit right in with the rest of us when the time comes but the NSIC looks like a good home for them right now.
Augie and the WI Green Bay team if it forms could join the pioneer and Augie to the Summit. In the near term That makes some sense.
In the longer term it’s all speculation but if all things were to stay the same, when the time comes, an NSIC D2 St Thomas could play in the MVFC right away. Maybe at that time Augie would be ready to add scholarships and they both could join the MVFC? As far as football is concerned Augie has said just give it time.
The NCC is not dead. We could end up in the Summit with all our old pals and the North Central Division of the MVFC consisting of the 4 Dakota schools UST and Augie.
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Post by Yote 53 on May 22, 2019 15:39:38 GMT -6
Augustana resembles the MIAC schools in profile that just kicked St. Thomas out of the conference. Augustana is a small enrollment, private liberal arts college with a tiny endowment. St. Thomas has an undergrad enrollment of 6,000 students with a $500 million endowment located in a major metro area. It's obvious to me who the Summit should be focusing on, and it isn't Augustana.
Rumor is that St. Thomas may ask the NCAA for a waiver so they can begin immediate transition to D1 given the unique position they are in being involuntarily forced out of their conference with no real good alternatives. They could apply to the WIAC but would be out of place in a Wisconsin public school conference. They could transition to D2 and join the NSIC, but is the NSIC going to be happy to be a pass through, stepping stone conference? They may reject UST as well, and there are no other good D2 options in the region. A straight transition to D1 and the Summit makes sense.
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Post by aldewitt on May 22, 2019 17:51:58 GMT -6
UST would make a good fit. After all, as charter members of the NCC it’s nothing new for them. I’m not sure what they do about hockey and football. Their head coach was at NDSU and might be able to transition them from non scholarship to full scholarship with financial support.
When it comes to the Summit It’s not either or though. The Summit gets Augie too.
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Post by aldewitt on May 22, 2019 18:28:56 GMT -6
Anything can happen but the waiver for UST might not be a go. I think it’s more likely they go to NSIC and follow the business model of Mankato and UMD rather than the model at UND.
UND has one of the smallest budgets in D1 for hockey and D1 football. UST is smaller. For schools their size the D1 hockey D2 other sports is a more successful model. Not being driven by the Englestad family UST will make the decision best for them from their own point of view.
Sioux Volley, the conference realignment expert at Sioux sports, disagrees too and echoes some of my points. He has this to say:
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Post by aldewitt on May 23, 2019 4:05:56 GMT -6
With the news Crookston, enrollment 2,834, is on the verge of starting a D1 hockey program for membership in the WCHA people should feel a lot better about Augie to the Summit. Then when you add the speculation of U of Mary and Minot State starting hockey, both with enrollments of just over 3,000, you begin to realize it’s not about enrollments. Both UMD and St Cloud are about 5 times the size of Many teams in the league and UMD is right behind it. It’s the budgets not the enrollments.
UND is spending 21 million and has the second smallest budget in D1 for schools with both hockey and football. I suppose UST could join them and Bowling Green at the bottom of the heap or join its peers in the NSIC using the more successful sports model.
UST has an endowment a little larger than USDs 401 mill and about twice the Dakota schools. I don’t know what their athletic budget is.
For a school the size of UST to play D1 hockey UMD is the model to follow. They are champions in both D2 football and D1 hockey. Hold that in contrast to the success of Bowling Green and UND trying to compete in all D1 all sports. There is barely enough to keep the hockey programs running at that level and pay basic expenses in other sports.
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Post by aldewitt on May 23, 2019 5:17:36 GMT -6
From Bisonville:
Is Augi really that much of an extistential threat to USD when they are already in Sioux Falls competing for fans, players and corporate dollars? Augie is a money maker because it’s cheap to get there, especially for the Dakota schools, and there will be no money losing guarantee to pay.
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Post by aldewitt on May 23, 2019 5:50:15 GMT -6
FARGO FORUM TODAY:
The MIAC presidents haven’t shown much character.
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Post by Yote 53 on May 23, 2019 7:29:15 GMT -6
Somehow you are able to take the St. Thomas situation and spin it to bash UND. Unbelievable. Then taking quotes off other forums. I've never been a fan of Augustana and do not hide that fact. It's a small, liberal arts school that doesn't belong in the same conference as the Dakota schools. They belong with Morningside in the NAIA. They should be happy they are D2. This isn't about Augustana, this is about Sioux Falls and their want for a D1 school. Once the shine wears off their shiny new D1 toy, which will be after one season because they are going to get their teeth kicked in during the transition, the Sioux Falls market will treat them as an 8 yr old boy treats a new toy on Dec. 26, they'll forget about them. We will be stuck with a limited resources, second division, perpetual bottom dweller in the conference just like they were in the NCC.
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Post by aldewitt on May 23, 2019 15:50:07 GMT -6
With budgets this size nobody is supporting D1 hockey and football except UND and Bowling Green. Neither is a powerhouse and the expense is even starting to take its toll on hockey. UMD on the other hand is winning D1 hockey and D2 football national championships.
Suggesting UST move all sports to D1 begs the comparison of the business models. It strongly suggests UST take the UMD rout and the vacancy Augie would create in the NSIC. Besides, especially with the opening in the NSIC, there will be no extenuating circumstances for UST to cite supporting the D2 waiver.
Enrollment is clearly a secondary consideration behind funding when talking about D2 to D1 conversions. D1 hockey is being over-run with lower division members and planned move-ups. If Augie has the money they will be just fine.
Growth in budgets and enrollments at all the D2 schools in this region is suggesting more D1 conversions in the future. All of them should be welcome in the Summit.
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Post by aldewitt on May 24, 2019 6:14:51 GMT -6
Thats the same argument the MIAC presidents used when they kicked out UST. Who is the next biggest loser in the conference? Are they good enough to belong?
we really have little information about Augies readiness except their athletic budget which is already up there with some of the other perpetual bottom feeders in the conference.
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Post by kiyoat on May 24, 2019 7:33:20 GMT -6
Somehow you are able to take the St. Thomas situation and spin it to bash UND. Unbelievable. Then taking quotes off other forums.... While I respectfully disagree with your stance on Augustana, I agree with this take wholeheartedly. Aldewitt should feel free to bash whatever team or fans he feels fit to, but the anti-UND constant drumbeat gets old. An intelligent take suddenly veers into biased nonsense when the F-Hawks are brought into it. At least it would be nice if there were some kind of NDSU avatar or photo to show where this bias is coming from, but again, free speech. That's his decision to make. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm getting tired of the Augustana speculation. I wish the Augustana news that they are joining the Summit (or not) would just definitively come out. My interest is waning on that subject. (crap or get off the pot) St. Thomas is interesting, but more for the NSIC. They are at least 12 years away from Division I due to NCAA rules, unfortunately. |
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