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Post by Yote 53 on May 9, 2021 20:43:02 GMT -6
CF got the reaction he wanted. He thrives on it.
Any coach who has accomplished as much and gotten to the point in a career like Bob has an internal drive of being successful, these guys really don't know any different. CF's posts about getting complacent once you get a contract are probably more of a reflection on himself. Guys like Bob aren't wired that way.
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Post by elcoyote on May 9, 2021 21:51:22 GMT -6
CF got the reaction he wanted. He thrives on it. Any coach who has accomplished as much and gotten to the point in a career like Bob has an internal drive of being successful, these guys really don't know any different. CF's posts about getting complacent once you get a contract are probably more of a reflection on himself. Guys like Bob aren't wired that way.Admittedly I'm not a big fan of Coach Nielson, but I do agree wholeheartedly with this statement.
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Post by Coyote Fan on May 9, 2021 23:08:56 GMT -6
So I am usually on the fire the coach bandwagon but what other option is there. Maybe Herbster need to monitor things more closely and create a little more heat on the coaches chair. The coach has total authority of the program. Can anyone look in the mirror and honesty say they are happy with the last 3 decades of Coyote football? 30 years is a damn long time to be bad for that long. Maybe things need to be done differently for a change. Accountability needs to be had. Accountability is a word that doesn't seem to exist with this program. There hasn't even really been a good 5 year run in that span. Meierkort came the closest with a pretty good span between 2004 and 2006 but after that things began to go downhill and Ed lost control of the program and the discipline of the players. Ed at one time was a very good coach. It just didn't have sustainability. One thing that he never really did was take the team that played at home and even be close to the same team on the road. That is what really cost Meierkort the chance to really be great. He would beat teams by 5 touchdowns at home but lose to those same teams on the road. I always measure success by how a team plays on the road.
Does anyone really care what Joe Glenn and Bob Nielson did when they were not coaching for the Coyotes. I certainly don't. Sure they had success but if they don't bring that and apply it in Vermillion does it really matter at the end of the day. Maybe it is just an impossible task to win in Vermillion. If you believe that than sure just keep Nielson around until he is 75. If you think winning is possible at USD than I think it is time to move on. Nielson needs a 3 year rebuild of his own program. Do we want to give him 3 years to rebuild on his own mistakes. I am not sure I want to do that. Maybe others feel differently. If as a fan base we don't get sick of this it will never change. Keeping Nielson is not "getting sick of it" enough. The problem is that the people like Yoteforever get too close to the program and they let their emotions get in the way of doing the right thing. This is a brutal business and no one is guaranteed anything and Bob is not getting it done, period.
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Post by Coyote Fan on May 9, 2021 23:15:57 GMT -6
I have a lot of haters on this board. How long has it been since I have been criticized here, maybe 20 years or more now. How good has the program been in that time? People say I am crazy but the alternative and status qou hasn't exactly been producing good results so how about trying a different path of accountability for once. Unfortunately accountability can often result in coaches being fired. Just the way it is. I am a very matter of fact person when it comes to sports and it can come off as brash and brutal at times.
But how about we just continue going down the same path and see if it takes us anywhere but circles around the forest.
Maybe it is time for the country club to allow others outside that club to have their opinions be heard and considered for once.
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Post by fightsd on May 10, 2021 7:16:03 GMT -6
Nielson doesn't really have anything to get motivated for. He has his contract. He got his facility upgrades that he was promised. Now what is he going to do to give back. I just don't see a guy with alot of energy or an identity. He has had time to get to know the conference and hasn't been able to deliver more than mediocre at best results. The odds of him figuring it out go down substancially as he gets older. This post,in my opinion, is so wrong. 1.) Do you earnestly and honestly believe Coach Nielson doesn’t have anything to get motivated about? Really? You believe he’s not driven to win? You believe he has no personal pride? 2.) He does have his contract, and there’s many reasons he does. When he was extended the contract, coaches in the Valley were using the old contract against him in recruiting. Saying things like he’s gonna leave...or get fired. The state of South Dakota was not wise in having year to year contracts. Have you read his contract? Can you tell me if there’s performance clauses in it that would allow administration to let him go if he didn’t reach certain benchmarks? Or release him if he did as you suggest and just ate donuts and drank coffee now that he has his contract? 3.) USD football got the upgrades, not Bob Nielson. Those upgrades were made as a long term investment regardless who the coach is. 4.) Coach Nielson is certainly not a rah-rah guy, like Joe Glenn. In fact he’s quite the opposite. Does that make him a worse coach? Really? 5.) He’s knows the Valley inside out. Prior to USD he was coach at Western Illinois. Guess what league that schools in? The results thus far are not what anyone wants, INCLUDING COACH NIELSON. Does that mean you fire him? I don’t know in this day and age where it’s instant gratification and success I guess it does. The man won national titles in D2. He was in the playoffs at Western Illinois. We’ve been in the playoffs once. I agree, I want more. But I have been harping about this for a long time. It’s all about the culture. That has not been built, and if you truly want LONG TERM success and not fleeting success on a periodic basis, the culture has to be there in place. That falls on Bob as well. But cultures aren’t built overnight. The tone of your post in my opinion is negative. Unless a team wins 80% or more of their games you say negative things. Bob is our coach. Until the administration changes that, I’m going to back him every step of the way. And if they do make a change ( for the right reason ) I’ll back whomever they hire at that point in time. I bleed Coyote red. I’ll die Coyote red. Life’s not perfect...never has been, never will be. I will say this in closing, and NO it’s not making excuses. But we have paid the price for some decisions that were made over the last 20 years at different times that we are still paying for. Most likely you might not even know what some of those were. It’s time to hold everyone accountable . Coaches, players, and administration. The football team has everything they need to win. Everything. But to come in a public forum and say what you did is wrong. If you want to say he’s a bad coach based on records, or because of staff or player development ( or lack thereof ), then that’s your opinion. People can respect it or not. But when you come on and basically say he’s got his money so screw everyone else...he’s lazy, uncaring, etc...then that’s an attack on character. Of all people that post on here, I think you’d be most sensitive to character assassination. The part of your post that jumps out is the part about there being a culture problem. This is absolutely 100% spot on. You said it yourself, cultures aren't built overnight. But how long does it take? It's not like this was Bob's first disappointing season. The program has struggled mightily since he's been here, with the exception of one season and that was more a result of Streveler being a freak athlete. The program struggled before Bob was hired and that's not his fault, but at some point he was expected to turn things around. He's had enough time to get his own guys, his own staff, his own system all in place. How much more time do we, as fans, give him before we can start having the hard conversations about Bob's future here? I mean, I hate to see guys go that clearly want what's best for the program. It was horrible when Joe 'stepped down' because that's a guy that truly loves Coyote football. I feel like Bob loves the program as well, but maybe it's time to try something else. Maybe we don't need a proven winner on the downhill side of his career. Maybe it's time to go find somebody that still has something to prove. As for CF thinking it's because Bob is under contract so he doesn't care anymore, that's just ridiculous. But it's CF, so... well... you know.
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Post by Yote 53 on May 10, 2021 8:13:34 GMT -6
We give him until he either turns the program around or it is economically feasible (and politically feasible given how we broke the one-year contract ceiling to sign Coach Nielson) to buy out the current contract. We're not in a position to do anything right now and I don't think you do it anyway given where we are at on the calendar. Also, I don't think you make a move like that based on the results from an * spring season that doesn't count. The last real football games were played in the Fall of 2019 and I happen to remember being in the Dome for the last win of that season.
There is no point in really having this discussion until at least November 2021, so I don't know why this is such a topic right now.
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Post by captaincoyote on May 10, 2021 8:16:45 GMT -6
Coyote Fan may have exaggerated his speculations on Coach Nielsons complacency, but there might be some truth. Bob may still be working very hard in comparison to 99% of the population, but coaching is a brutal endeavor. It takes very little complacency to fall behind. I wouldn't be surprised if Bob has been thinking that it is just a matter of time until the program's young talent makes the big step needed for us to be a playoff program. Maybe he could have been pushing them a little harder and thrusting them into leadership positions. This of course is just me guessing about what is off in the program. I could be wrong.
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Post by fightsd on May 10, 2021 8:50:39 GMT -6
We give him until he either turns the program around or it is economically feasible (and politically feasible given how we broke the one-year contract ceiling to sign Coach Nielson) to buy out the current contract. We're not in a position to do anything right now and I don't think you do it anyway given where we are at on the calendar. Also, I don't think you make a move like that based on the results from an * spring season that doesn't count. The last real football games were played in the Fall of 2019 and I happen to remember being in the Dome for the last win of that season. There is no point in really having this discussion until at least November 2021, so I don't know why this is such a topic right now. I completely agree it doesn't make sense to do anything until after the fall season. But the feasibility of it needs to be considered prior to that point, in my opinion. The old excuse has always been, "we just need time". Time to develop guys, time to get their own recruits, etc. That excuse doesn't work anymore. This staff has had enough time to do what they needed to do. Again, give them this fall season to prove to me that things are headed in the right direction, but it's fair to talk about it now. And quit saying the spring season doesn't count. If nothing else, it will absolutely count in recruiting, fan support, endowments, etc. Even if there's an asterisk next to whoever wins the championship, the effects of that championship will absolutely benefit whichever program wins it.
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Post by Yotes on May 10, 2021 9:55:55 GMT -6
There is no point in really having this discussion until at least November 2021, so I don't know why this is such a topic right now. I think it's a topic because other teams are playing football right now and everyone here has to be so tired of having seen about the same thing play out every year for close to a decade. The results of the spring season don't bother me so much, given that it doesn't really feel like it ever happened. I was able to watch 2 1/2 games and it was done. I saw a bizarre road game where the opponent (who later cancelled their season) gave up 7 or 8 turnovers, a home opener/finale with a spring game atmosphere, and half of a game at UND because it was on a Thursday for some dumb reason. Missed what would end up being the 4th and final game at Youngstown. I think the only way it could have been weirder is if we got a couple bounces, finished 3-1, and wound in up in the playoffs. Even though the season was a farce, it did happen and will bring out the feelings everyone has been holding on to for years. I have been sour on Bob since Streveler left town and could rehash all my complaints again, but I think we all agree that we don't want Bob to go in the coming months because that is a recipe for disaster. He will have at least one more season and I hope we end up in a situation where we want him to stick around for more than that. Let's wait for the critical season to play out this Fall and then assess the program.
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Post by easmus on May 10, 2021 11:53:21 GMT -6
I have certainly spent time wondering how a guy who has won everywhere he has gone, gets to Vermilion and cannot do the same. Is that a coach problem, or an institutional issue? Constant turnover in the HC position doesn’t help in recruiting of players OR assistant coaches. On one hand, if we have another subpar season you can certainly make the case for a change. BUT if you make a change, is it going to only hurt the institute’s perception as a coaching graveyard and a black hole for players?
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steelsd
Sophomore Member
Posts: 167
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Post by steelsd on May 10, 2021 11:54:17 GMT -6
We give him until he either turns the program around or it is economically feasible (and politically feasible given how we broke the one-year contract ceiling to sign Coach Nielson) to buy out the current contract. We're not in a position to do anything right now and I don't think you do it anyway given where we are at on the calendar. Also, I don't think you make a move like that based on the results from an * spring season that doesn't count. The last real football games were played in the Fall of 2019 and I happen to remember being in the Dome for the last win of that season. There is no point in really having this discussion until at least November 2021, so I don't know why this is such a topic right now. You really keep bringing up the * season, which sure looks like sour grapes. To win the Natty this year a team needed to go through a playoff field that included NDSU, SHSU, JWU, EWU, Weber, and SDSU. So basically, the same teams typically playing at the end of the season in what you would consider a season that does "count." Again, I guess it goes to show the difference between the contenders and the pretenders. You have fans of a lot of teams complaining and making excuses while the teams that are typically there at the end of a normal season are still there now. Seems to me those teams took this season seriously and the results showed. I guess it's easier to for the other teams to make excuses than actually win. Can't wait to see what the excuse will be for the the next season.
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Post by elcoyote on May 10, 2021 22:13:06 GMT -6
Interesting that you'd take the time to come over here to see or care what anybody here thinks. Seek professional help.
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Post by kiyoat on May 11, 2021 3:07:48 GMT -6
Interesting that you'd take the time to come over here to see or care what anybody here thinks. Seek professional help. It’s ok. Today I learned that punching down is the way of the “contender”, and its not at all classless. The next time we have a major accomplishment in a sport, we should all remember to go out of our way to chastise any fans of other programs that produce any “sour grapes” comments (instead of just celebrating the accomplishment). “The way of the contender”
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steelsd
Sophomore Member
Posts: 167
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Post by steelsd on May 11, 2021 7:00:13 GMT -6
Well, I'm seeing a couple of posters here who don't seem to demonstrate the level of "class" or mental health they seem to hold others too. Speaking of the need to seek out professional help... I was pointing out how the playoff field for this season is a field of the same powerful programs that you would see in any typical year. I just found it interesting that one poster was dismissing the accomplishments of the teams in the field based on, reasons, was somehow less impressive than it would be in a typical year. To me it seems the teams left standing at the end of the year overcame more obstacles than similar teams in a typical year. So it's interesting that someone would so dismiss the accomplishments of these student athletes. Heck, I applaud athletes for all the teams for putting their best foot forward in the face of all adversity. And yes, I would say the same thing and call out a poster on my own board if the roles were reversed. Coyote Fan and Captain Coyote raised good points earlier in the post so it's not like my opinion is unheard of here.
No one is dismissing that this season has been different from a normal season. All teams faced challenges that they would not face in a typical year. And there is certainly no guarantee that the upcoming season that is being played at it's typical time won't face cancellations or teams giving up when thing turn sour for them (ie Illinois State). Do we honestly think there won't be positive tests this upcoming season? How many games need to be cancelled before we put an * next to that year as well? What's to stop a team from "opting out" from next season for the reasons they used in the Spring? Are people really going to call them out for it when, not if, it happens? Basketball was played at it's normal time but that didn't stop teams from "opting out" due to health concerns (although all the teams that did that were having bad years). Do we put an * next to Baylor and Stanford's titles? Idk, I don't think we are going to see a "normal" season for awhile yet in any sport. Likely not until a positive Covid case is treated the same as a positive flu test anyway. To deny respect to the teams that overcame all the obstacles outside of just W's and L's is dismissing the efforts of these athletes, and yes, that is sour grapes no matter who your favorite team is.
I think this weird season will have some interesting overall impact for the upcoming season. Some teams, like SDSU, will come into it with a lot of momentum and confidence based off how the season played out. Some teams, like Illinois State, may have set their programs back for years by how poorly they handled it. Their coach quit on them and players jumped ship. I guess I'm curious how USD fans see this last season impacting the upcoming season. The teams that took the lessons they learned about their team from this season and quickly can make the best adjustments will have a leg up on the next season. I didn't really see any of the USD games so I'm curious what positive things you all saw that you can build off. I sense the line play was a negative and needs to be addressed based off comments I have read.
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Post by elcoyote on May 11, 2021 7:41:51 GMT -6
Well, I'm seeing a couple of posters here who don't seem to demonstrate the level of "class" or mental health they seem to hold others too. Speaking of the need to seek out professional help... I was pointing out how the playoff field for this season is a field of the same powerful programs that you would see in any typical year. I just found it interesting that one poster was dismissing the accomplishments of the teams in the field based on, reasons, was somehow less impressive than it would be in a typical year. To me it seems the teams left standing at the end of the year overcame more obstacles than similar teams in a typical year. So it's interesting that someone would so dismiss the accomplishments of these student athletes. Heck, I applaud athletes for all the teams for putting their best foot forward in the face of all adversity. And yes, I would say the same thing and call out a poster on my own board if the roles were reversed. Coyote Fan and Captain Coyote raised good points earlier in the post so it's not like my opinion is unheard of here. No one is dismissing that this season has been different from a normal season. All teams faced challenges that they would not face in a typical year. And there is certainly no guarantee that the upcoming season that is being played at it's typical time won't face cancellations or teams giving up when thing turn sour for them (ie Illinois State). Do we honestly think there won't be positive tests this upcoming season? How many games need to be cancelled before we put an * next to that year as well? What's to stop a team from "opting out" from next season for the reasons they used in the Spring? Are people really going to call them out for it when, not if, it happens? Basketball was played at it's normal time but that didn't stop teams from "opting out" due to health concerns (although all the teams that did that were having bad years). Do we put an * next to Baylor and Stanford's titles? Idk, I don't think we are going to see a "normal" season for awhile yet in any sport. Likely not until a positive Covid case is treated the same as a positive flu test anyway. To deny respect to the teams that overcame all the obstacles outside of just W's and L's is dismissing the efforts of these athletes, and yes, that is sour grapes no matter who your favorite team is. I think this weird season will have some interesting overall impact for the upcoming season. Some teams, like SDSU, will come into it with a lot of momentum and confidence based off how the season played out. Some teams, like Illinois State, may have set their programs back for years by how poorly they handled it. Their coach quit on them and players jumped ship. I guess I'm curious how USD fans see this last season impacting the upcoming season. The teams that took the lessons they learned about their team from this season and quickly can make the best adjustments will have a leg up on the next season. I didn't really see any of the USD games so I'm curious what positive things you all saw that you can build off. I sense the line play was a negative and needs to be addressed based off comments I have read. Totally throwing the BS flag on this one. Anyone from USD who is bold enough to post on your board with either a positive or negative comment gets ridiculed and summarily dismissed. Nobody gets called out for it. But thanks for taking the time to come over here and inform us all on how wonderful you are.
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