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Post by fightsd on Sept 4, 2021 22:04:30 GMT -6
The reason there is a revolving door actually falls on the AD. If the AD would get this right there would be no need for a revolving door. But we can just settle on a mediocre program and shut down that revolving door. Settling on a mediocre coach is like giving up on expecting a winning program and if that happens the fans will eventually give up as well. Looks at women's basketball. There has been a revolving door there but the coaches on the other side have always been good. I think after Nielson is gone USD should just let an experienced outsider firm to make the decision. USD itself simply doesn't get football right. I have no problem with that. Let an outside firm handle it. The part I don't agree with is that our fans settle for mediocre coaching. Nobody here wants to see the program fail, most are just realistic enough to understand it takes time to build a program the right way. In my opinion, this is Nielsens last opportunity to prove this program has turned a corner. That's the difference between you and I on this topic. You've been calling for his head since year 2. Just like you were with Joe Glenn. I've given him the chance to develop his own players and build the culture here. He's had plenty of time to do that now, so let's see how the season plays out. The timing was absolutely wrong to make a coaching change after the spring season, but it could be right this winter if we need to go that route. And the WBB comparison doesn't work here. Our coaches have been hired up to bigger and better positions because of the success they had at USD. That makes it an attractive job for potential candidates. Totally different situation with the football program. |
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Post by yoteforever on Sept 4, 2021 22:21:18 GMT -6
Coach,
Great post. I said going into the game that if we didn’t play with passion nd fire I was going to be greatly disappointed. This team played with both…on both sides of the ball but specifically the defense. I was there last night and these guys were engaged the entire time even when they were on the sideline. Camp didn’t have a good night but I didn’t know if we have anyone behind him to,put out there. We’ll see. Camp will get better. He needs some confidence and needs to pull the trigger much quicker.
The defense was spectacular. Granted Kansas offense stinks, but that’s a Big12 offense. We held them to less than 250 total yards. That’s doing a great job I don’t care who the hell you are playing. That defense can keep us in every game we play, even if the offense struggles. Containment was excellent and gang tackling took place all over the field.
It’s vogue to say you don’t make excuses but I’m going to say this. I stood on the sidelines and witnessed refs “eating” their flags when Kansas was guilty. Twice I saw the back judge reach for his flag when Kansas had the ball and they were “in space” holding Cochrane and Matthew. It was so damn obvious. And both times I saw it Coach Nielsen raised hell as well. So you don’t take this as just a frustrated fan, i officiated college football for several years. I’ve been round the block and I know how officiating crews work. This was a Big12 crew and they know where their bread is buttered. To beat a power 5 team you have to be heads and tails better then them. We were heads better…not tails.
Then if you didn’t watch the game I will comment on the targeting call. For starters, the call by the referee to the crowd was this……”after the play was over, SOUTH dakota had a personal foul for late hit….with targeting.” Now from there, you go to review. They put the play on the Jumbotron. I will say our guy led with his head for starters. That being said the action was simultaneous with the offense player lunging forward. THERE WAS NO LATE HIT. And that was the call…remember that. Secondly when the replayed the play on the Jumbotron, although he led with his head, the offensive player at the last second dropped his head and our players head went over the top. In order for it to be targeting, it MUST BE HELMET TO,HELMET. Those are the rules. Lastly, if you watch the replay you will notice that the official that threw the flag did so at least 3-4 seconds after the play was over AFTER the Kansas coaching staff charged him yelling for the call. It’s painfully obvious. I was near this official the entire first half when the action was going to the south end zone. He was the cockiest official I’ve been around. He was play after play attempting to draw attention to himself. He’s a bad official.
That roughing and targeting call was pathetic. And lastly, what do poor crews do when they know they’ve screwed up? They make a “make up” call. That call came the next play on a phantom holding call against Kansas. In the words of officiating crews those are referred to as “eveners”.
Now there’s 2 things. IF the targeting call isn’t made, they still have 4th down to convert. So maybe we get beat anyway. But we shortened the field for them and gave them a fresh set of downs. Secondly, if we just hold on to the interception the play before we win. So we could’ve closed it out on our own. And I will tell you the player that had that opportunity is sick about it. Absolutely sick. Our linebackers are as good as they get. Our new Dline coach has done one hell of a job. And our overall scheme that many complained about 2 years ago is not set in place, and they are to be reckoned with.
If the passion stops then I’ll scream out loud myself. But I for one am encouraged as hell by what I saw last night. When they left the field our guys were absolutely sick about that finish.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Sept 5, 2021 1:56:36 GMT -6
The reason there is a revolving door actually falls on the AD. If the AD would get this right there would be no need for a revolving door. But we can just settle on a mediocre program and shut down that revolving door. Settling on a mediocre coach is like giving up on expecting a winning program and if that happens the fans will eventually give up as well. Looks at women's basketball. There has been a revolving door there but the coaches on the other side have always been good. I think after Nielson is gone USD should just let an experienced outsider firm to make the decision. USD itself simply doesn't get football right. I have no problem with that. Let an outside firm handle it. The part I don't agree with is that our fans settle for mediocre coaching. Nobody here wants to see the program fail, most are just realistic enough to understand it takes time to build a program the right way. In my opinion, this is Nielsens last opportunity to prove this program has turned a corner. That's the difference between you and I on this topic. You've been calling for his head since year 2. Just like you were with Joe Glenn. I've given him the chance to develop his own players and build the culture here. He's had plenty of time to do that now, so let's see how the season plays out. The timing was absolutely wrong to make a coaching change after the spring season, but it could be right this winter if we need to go that route. And the WBB comparison doesn't work here. Our coaches have been hired up to bigger and better positions because of the success they had at USD. That makes it an attractive job for potential candidates. Totally different situation with the football program. I will take issue with the "it takes time to build a program" comment. Generally when you say it takes time that timeframe should be 2 or 3 years, not 5 or more especially when considering that the coach is in his 50's and generally at that age coaches have kind of peaked and are what they are. Coyote fans have been saying that for not just years but decades. "building a program takes time" is as non urgent of an excuse as there is and urgency should be a yearly thing. Generally a good coach will make a significant impact in year 1 but by the end of the 3rd year the program is pretty much what it is going to be. I was not calling for Nielson's head after 2 years. I believe the second year was the playoff year. What I will say is that when the Coyotes started 7-0 or 6-0 or whatever it was the end of an era that last a year and a half. After that the Coyotes have never been the same. Even since then Nielson has never gotten the program back to the same level. If you believe in the building a program takes time than shouldn't Nielson have struggled right away and had the program get steadily better. He started out quickly actually and it was looking like we had the guy. A good program doesn't start out good for 2 years and than collapse after that. That is considered a pretty big problem and not a trend that is typically headed by a good coach. It can easily be argued that Streveler was much more the reason for success than Nielson but of course Nielson does get credit for it and should. But right now Nielson should get the criticism as well. At this point it is pretty evident that Streveler was the biggest reason for the success of Nielson right off the bat. Since he has left the program has severely declined. Read into it as you want but Streveler is exhibit A and he was so damn good that it masked so many other areas of weakness. If you want to say that Streveler's fire and leadership are a good reason why the Yotes won and had that swagger that is probably correct. |
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Post by Coyote Fan on Sept 5, 2021 2:02:37 GMT -6
When I makes these comments I do it out of respect and I don't personally take shots at anyone. I hope no one is offended as that is not my intention but sometimes to be truthful it hurts to write it and in turn read it as well. We saw some good things on Friday Night. I think the best thing we saw was a team that fought hard. Lets see if they are fighting as hard in November as they did against Kansas. In many seasons that has not been the case. Lets see more week to week consistency this year.
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Post by yoteforever on Sept 5, 2021 8:38:53 GMT -6
I find it interesting that you are “radio silent” for months then the first time the team or coaching staff performs less than what you think is ideal, you make somewhere around 10 posts. I want to address some of your recent posts.
Let’s start with the comment regarding the poor job AD’s have done in hiring a coach. Starting with Ed Meierkort, he was hired in the early 2000’s by Joel Nielsen. Ed was hired to coach at the D2 level. Ed was Ed. I think he did a great job as we transitioned from 2 to 1. D2 athletes should not be the same as D1. But it’s not like you can ask them to leave, so you transition through that period with kids that are now playing at a level they weren’t signed up to do. Give or take, Ed guided us through a period that’s rough to go through ( look back at Ndsu and SDSU ) playing .500 ball give or take. New AD David Sayler comes in and he has no time for Ed and some of his shenanigans. So he fires Ed and hires Joe Glenn. As I told you in a private message I was opposed to Joe but I never told you the reason why. Joe was hired as a knee jerk reaction to the fact we had (3) viable coaches turn it down and now Sayler grew desperate. He needed a “name”. The reason he got turned down was because those coaches saw an AD that fired a coach that actually did a great job. Ed was not only handicapped with player talent he was handicapped with assistant coaches salaries. That’s a double whammy.
Moving now to Glenn, he had the same issues. He didn’t have enough money to pay assistants what the better ones needed. So here we are, acting D1 without funding it. Joe actually did many things to elevate the program but his start handicapped him. So in the end, the Glenn era was on the hands of David Sayler.
Next comes the Bob Nielsen era. His hire was David Herbster’s decision. In my mind it was and still is a great choice. But before I go further, you made (2) posts talking about having an outside firm do the process. Although that wasn’t done I will tell you before the hire the president of one of the largest search firms for coaches in the country said Bob Nielsen was a home run hire. He was familiar with the situation because his son worked for USD at the time. So in essence we saved $50,000 for the search and got the same results. Based on everything known, AD Herbster made a great hire. Now let’s come back to funding of the program. Our assistant coaches pool is roughly $75,000 under what it should be. So you could hire Nick Sabin but if your assistants aren’t what they should be then you aren’t going to win. Period. This isn’t a shot at our assistants it’s just the reality of the situation. For example, if Bob Nielsen had the luxury in his budget of hiring a recruiting coordinator, then his assistants would be freed up of a lot of their time they spend in recruiting for the development of players. But right now that isn’t possible. Most assistant coaches aren’t great recruiters anyways. So what we have here is USD playing at the D1 level but not being fully funded to excel. My question to you is do you give to the program outside ticket sales to enhance the chances of us winning? If you can’t, I get it, up then don’t be critical until you know the facts.
If posters on this board had the wherewithal to donate an extra $125,000 we could hire a recruiting coordinator and draw from a pool of talented assistant coaches. These guys aren’t getting rich. Money matters. Coaches will leave for a $10,000 bump or more. These are facts. I would ask obc to comment on this as he knows first hand how this goes down. So the bottom line is we have budgetary issues and they could easily be fixed by increased ticket revenue and private donations made by many. I’ve heard you say more than once on here “I’m not gonna buy tickets until……”. So if we have 5000 people that feel that way we will muddle forever.
Now let’s address your “country club” comments. That implies the administration and financial supporters ( such as myself ) are part of this good ol boys club. We’re soft so to speak. You have ZERO idea what goes on in Herbster’s office. ZERO. When your hands are tied by financial restraints you are literally screwed. Look at the big boys in football today ( Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, Georgia, Oklahoma ) and compare their football budgets to Iowa State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Vanderbilt, etc…. Do you see a connection? I do. It’s called money. Now bring that analysis down to our level. Same thing. Those that invest in winning….win. Those that don’t, struggle. We are definitely part of group #2. That’s the reality. If we would sell 5000 season tickets annually plus have a strong walk up sales number we could fund this investment. In closing on this topic, Herbster’s hands are tied. So are Nielsen’s. Does that mean he can’t win? Of course not. But the odds are stacked right now against him and his staff. There’s no fricking country club mentality that is in place in Vermillion. Rather there’s a core of people working their ass off behind the scenes trying like hell to get the capital raised to fund the success.
Lastly, our players played their asses off in Lawrence. Did Camp have a good game? Hell.no he didnt. He knows it. Can he improve? Of course. Ask obc. I’ve seen playoff teams win with defense. That’s our situation right now. Our defense appears to be solid. You’re correct when you say let’s see if they can play with same intensity and passion throughout the year as they did in Kansas. I believe they will. They have character I believe…but we’ll see.
I gave a new grandson I’m gonna go meet now so I will address your other posts in time. But I needed to address your comments because you think it’s just easy to go out and hire a head coach. There’s so much more to it. If we could step up and invest I believe we would see results.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Sept 5, 2021 10:06:10 GMT -6
I am simply tired of the excuses. SDSU has managed to put together a national championship level contender. There is no reason herbster needed to extend nielson's contract. That was a bad move. He didn't make him earn it. That seems pretty country club like to me. That is not how a good football program should function and you are not going to convince me otherwise.
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dewars
Freshman Member
Posts: 12
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Post by dewars on Sept 5, 2021 17:43:34 GMT -6
Bob is a good coach but not a magician. Wins are proportional to resources at our level.
We need to all check the mirror if we are looking for someone to blame!
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Post by fightsd on Sept 6, 2021 6:03:39 GMT -6
I am simply tired of the excuses. SDSU has managed to put together a national championship level contender. There is no reason herbster needed to extend nielson's contract. That was a bad move. He didn't make him earn it. That seems pretty country club like to me. That is not how a good football program should function and you are not going to convince me otherwise. The SDSU comparison doesn't really support your argument. Stig has been there for like 500 years and they stuck by him through some pretty bad teams up there. There were years when they flat out refused to play us believe it or not. They didn't go away from him when they had some down years. As for the Nielsen extension, I supported it at the time but sort of regret it now. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess. When they gave him the new contract, we were coming off a playoff run and winning season - it looked like things were heading in the right direction. We all knew Strev had a lot to do with that, but maybe didn't realize exactly how much. But there were rumors flying around about Bob taking a head job in the MAC or some other low level FBS conference and we didn't want to start back at square one. It's hard to say he didn't earn it, when it was done because other schools were sniffing around and looking to pull him away. In the long term, I still think it was the right move honestly. It made the program appear stable if nothing else. It's easier to attract a good coach if the previous guy had been there for 5+ years - not some outfit that pulls the plug after a couple of seasons. The other positive about the whole situation, We now have the ability to offer multiple year contracts, that wouldn't have happened without the Bob situation. I'll use a WBB example since you like to compare the two programs all the time. Imagine a lower level P5 school coming around asking about Coach P - and I'm sure they already are. We have the ability to commit to a coach for a long time and create a pretty attractive package to compete with those other offers and keep a winning coach on campus. |
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Post by easmus on Sept 6, 2021 9:05:15 GMT -6
I had very mixed emotions until the end of the 4th quarter. I think Camp looked good on some things and worse than spring ball in others. I have to remember this is his 5th college game and he’s a freshman. I still think he’s the dude. A few negatives. We iced our own kicker. That was completely botched. Pretty sloppy at times with a lot of penalties. The targeting call at the end was the nail in the coffin emotionally for the team. It was the right call, but you cannot make that play at that crucial point in the game. I thought we looked more physical in the trenches than we have been…uh, ever. About time. Camp has got to find a way to get comfortable out there. I feel like we’ve created too high of expectations for him. I had to remind myself that he’s only played 4 games coming into the season, and none of those games had much of any crowd or crowd noise. He needs to start showing some improvement and NAU at home feels like a very important game for him. The DL & defense overall looked good. Offense has got to sustain some drives so the defense isn’t gassed in the 4th quarter. The staff overall has got to clean up some of the mistakes and overall game management. Far too many times the play clock was running out. Icing our own kicker. Substitution issues. |
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Post by easmus on Sept 6, 2021 9:18:56 GMT -6
I think Bob’s seat is getting warm and he knows it. I can understand if he is slightly frustrated these days, because we invested heavily in facilities and just as we were about to show them off Covid-19 happened and all recruiting went virtual. Now, that doesn’t explain sloppy play and mental mistakes. BUT the program does have 65 freshman out of 110 players. Is it possible that much youth would struggle with game management in a Big 12 game situation? I want to see some signs of improvement this season, and hopefully they clean things up for week 2. Because I want this staff to work. I fear that starting over again only makes the “cycle of poverty” continue.
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Post by yoteforever on Sept 6, 2021 9:35:52 GMT -6
I had very mixed emotions until the end of the 4th quarter. I think Camp looked good on some things and worse than spring ball in others. I have to remember this is his 5th college game and he’s a freshman. I still think he’s the dude. A few negatives. We iced our own kicker. That was completely botched. Pretty sloppy at times with a lot of penalties. The targeting call at the end was the nail in the coffin emotionally for the team. It was the right call, but you cannot make that play at that crucial point in the game. I thought we looked more physical in the trenches than we have been…uh, ever. About time. Camp has got to find a way to get comfortable out there. I feel like we’ve created too high of expectations for him. I had to remind myself that he’s only played 4 games coming into the season, and none of those games had much of any crowd or crowd noise. He needs to start showing some improvement and NAU at home feels like a very important game for him. The DL & defense overall looked good. Offense has got to sustain some drives so the defense isn’t gassed in the 4th quarter. The staff overall has got to clean up some of the mistakes and overall game management. Far too many times the play clock was running out. Icing our own kicker. Substitution issues. Yes Camp needs to improve. That’s a given. He had the ability so I do believe he will. Giving him high expectations vs what’s reality is fair, but if you don’t put high expectations on him he might not get there. So to me it’s ok to put it on him. Once ( or if ) he starts an upward trajectory then his confidence will build, his decisions quicker, etc. Right now he’s what we have. The defense was simply outstanding. I don’t care if Kansas sucks, we held them to a total even lower than what you expect you’d get. The gang tackling was out of sight. Our containment was awesome. If we play like that that D will keep us in every game. The clock management was an issue. That’s frustrating. I’m hopeful that comes with the first game crap. And lastly, it appeared we iced our kicker but that’s not what happened. I’m not sure if we were going to get the snap off or not. Someone on the sideline recognized this and called timeout. Stuff like this happens at the highest level. It only concerns me if it continues. I hope like hell we can get several thousand in the Dome Saturday. It would be nice to get a convincing win. I watched Montana knock off #20 Washington Saturday night so the Big Sky has some juice as well. I was at the Iowa State game against UNI as well. UNI’s defensive front is mammoth and their wideouts are fast. I drove from home to lawrence, lawrence to Ames, Ames back home and the 375 miles round trip to see my new grandson. 2 football games, met a future Coyote….life’s good. BEAT NAU |
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Post by coffeedrinker11 on Sept 6, 2021 13:47:41 GMT -6
Just a thought about icing our kicker. Listening to the local Lawrence radio broadcast they said we had 12 men on the field. The timeout kept us from a penalty. I didn't count, but that was their take.
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Post by yoteforever on Sept 6, 2021 15:51:42 GMT -6
Just a thought about icing our kicker. Listening to the local Lawrence radio broadcast they said we had 12 men on the field. The timeout kept us from a penalty. I didn't count, but that was their take. I don’t know that for sure. What is for sure with the clock running down it was a kluster. I think we called it because it appeared we weren’t gonna get the snap off in time. It literally was a confusing last 2 seconds |
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jackjd
Senior Member
Posts: 663
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Post by jackjd on Sept 6, 2021 19:01:03 GMT -6
fightsd wrote: "The SDSU comparison doesn't really support your (CF's) argument. Stig has been there for like 500 years and they stuck by him through some pretty bad teams up there. There were years when they flat out refused to play us believe it or not. They didn't go away from him when they had some down years."
I think fightsd's comment ('SDSU comparison doesn't support CF's argument') is a valid point. And, in fact, such a comparison supports generally the points made by yoteforever. Stig's first year as head coach was 1997. SDSU stopped playing USD after the 2003 season. Stig's season records from 1997 through 2003 were: 1997, 4-6 overall including a loss to USD; 1998, 6-5, Won against USD; 1999, 8-3, Won against USD; 2000, 6-5, Lost to USD; 2001, 5-6, Won against USD; 2002, 6-4, Won against USD; 2003, 7-4, Won against USD. [That information taken from a quick look at the SDSU football media guide...the USD media guide should show the same so you don't have to accept this post as gospel -- check it yourself.]
I think SDSU's athletic administrations and supporters generally recognized that we weren't giving Stig the same support several other schools in the conference were providing to their programs. To some degree, that criticism of SDSU goes back to the early 60s. We had some successful years and credit some resourceful coaches and tough players because they deserved better support.
There were the years when SDSU didn't play USD. I think the characterization of "refused to play" is lacking context. Yes, SDSU didn't schedule USD when USD was DII after SDSU and NDSU transitioned to DI. I suspect USD wasn't interested in playing SDSU and NDSU (I heard that sentiment many times from my USD friends...all in the vein of "good luck, you're going to fail"). SDSU and NDSU had plans and goals they were trying to accomplish -- and did accomplish -- when they moved to D-1.* [It's fair to say NDSU had fewer goals than SDSU since the Bison came into D-1 ready to compete for national titles.]
I think yoteforever's point --- that a school has to provide the right support for its program, is indisputable. In SDSU's case, it meant additional assistants, better pay, and a big investment in facilities. USD has the facilities in place. I can't speak to whether and where other improvements are needed but I think it's pretty likely yoteforever knows what he's talking about.
I wish CoyoteFan would leave SDSU out of the discussion. I suppose one can talk in generalities and make comparisons but when it gets down to the fine details, USD's situation is unique as is SDSU's.
*In yoteforever's post, he mentioned a sports-consultant's statement that hiring Bob Nielsen was a home run. That sports consultant is a good friend of mine and he was right and he knows what he's talking about. I thought hiring Bob Nielsen was a home run. I told anyone who'd listen that Nielsen would turn USD into a contender in three seasons -- if given the right tools. I knew of Coach Nielsen at UM-Duluth (I have family up there who watched what Nielsen did with that program). And who could forget what he did with Western Illinois: he took a distressed program and had them in the playoffs after a couple of seasons.
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Post by easmus on Sept 6, 2021 20:36:36 GMT -6
This is EXCELLENT perspective from JackJD. Building a program is not an overnight thing. I was as frustrated as anyone at times the last few years, but it really takes time and is only made worse when you’re constantly starting over. What I feel like we MUST start seeing is some of these recruiting classes staying together so we get some of those birthdays Glenn always talked about. Matt Zimmer recently said on his podcast that you can tell the staffs that are good at recruiting and developing players because on senior day they’ve got twenty something guys. If they have 7 they’re not doing something right. It feels like we’ve had a whole lot of single digit senior days.
The team has 65 guys right now with 4 years eligibility because of the RS rules and the covid year. They have to find a way to try to keep a bunch from bailing into the portal and stick together as a team and grow together. If they can do that, I feel like that will go a long way in trying to build culture. They need some strong leaders. Streveler wasnt just a great player but by all accounts a great leader. They’ve got to develop the depth and keep guys bought in. I want Bob to work. If Bob can’t win here, honestly can anyone? Bob didn’t just forget football when he got to Vermilion, so institutionally we must support his efforts to turn the aircraft carrier around. We’ve done it with facilities upgrades. Hopefully the investment starts to pay dividends.
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