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Post by Coyote Fan on Sept 17, 2015 18:00:26 GMT -6
Yoteforever,
You say I am overly negative. I say I am overly realistic which naturally will come out as negative because of the state of the program. I didn't have much bad to say about the UC Davis game. It was overall a good performance eventhough things will still need to improve going forward. I will point to Coyote basketball. They were pretty much a .500 team in their conference and I was mostly positive if not over the top positive about the program and they weren't close to winning a conference title or getting to the NCAA tourney. Eventhough the program was only break even I was enthused because I see an overall positive direction in the program. Football I don't share that same notion. I was pretty much ecstatic about the Women's team so I really don't go out of my way to be negative unless there is a reason to be. I don't have as high of expectation as some seem to think I do. I don't expect a conference title every season. I do expect a team that is for the most part a contender for a conference title or at least has a realistic outlook to be one. In football the Yotes don't have the look whatsoever of a conference title contender. They don't just not contend they don't even belong on the same field as the better MVFC programs and that is something that I simply cannot live with. That is fact and has been proven recently on the field, not merely just on a message board.
If the Yotes beat Youngstown and follow it up with a win at Western Illinois I may start to change my mind but the team needs to at least finish at 4-4 in the Valley before I even begin to do summersaults about the direction of the program. Some may not need proof but based on what I have seen over the past 3 years plus I need to see intangible results for a sustained period of time. I did mention in the game thread that the win over UC Davis at least kept my interest in the program but before I start thinking this thing is headed in the right direction I simply need to see more and I don't know how anyone can really fault that way of thinking.
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Post by Yotes on Sept 17, 2015 18:49:27 GMT -6
Overly realistic is not the right term. If the Men's basketball team posts a record like they did last year again this year you will be putting Coach Smith on the hot seat. It's a possibility and honestly quite likely as we have to wait for the young recruits to flourish and help Smith build his legacy here. Yet I won't be surprised at all to see you deriding him if we post another 17-16 9-7 record with the season ending in the Summit semifinals. Realistic is just not the term I would use to describe your mentality CF.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Sept 17, 2015 19:09:32 GMT -6
Overly realistic is not the right term. If the Men's basketball team posts a record like they did last year again this year you will be putting Coach Smith on the hot seat. It's a possibility and honestly quite likely as we have to wait for the young recruits to flourish and help Smith build his legacy here. Yet I won't be surprised at all to see you deriding him if we post another 17-16 9-7 record with the season ending in the Summit semifinals. Realistic is just not the term I would use to describe your mentality CF. You are purely speculating and have no evidence in my way of thinking when it comes to the basketball program. Honestly you are way off base and think you know what you don't. I don't expect the Yotes to take a major step back this year but I don't know how far forward they will go either. Smith seems to be building more for the 2016-2017 season than he is this year. Maybe that is just how the chips fell in his recruiting and adding players. He is the refreshing change I and many were looking for so why would I want to change the change. If the program sinks to a bottom tier program and the Yotes find themselves fighting to get out of the basement in the Summit for 3 or 4 years in a row I would probably begin to have some major questions but that is not how I see things going. I think there is a much more realistic chance that Smith will leave for another head coaching position at a bigger program before I have an overall negative impression of him. Sorry to hi-jack the football thread with basketball talk but if anyone wants to question my opinion of basketball any longer take it to the basketball thread(s). I will be glad to discuss much more my opinion about basketball.
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Post by yoteforever on Sept 17, 2015 20:46:41 GMT -6
I was going over playoff scenarios in my head earlier this week. I'll keep them to myself until we are in the midst of that four game win streak. Unless something changes dramatically we aren't a playoff team. We just need to get better, and i think we are. Certainly on defense we are better. Building football programs is hard to do, and usually takes time, and a lot of it.
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Post by Yotes on Sept 17, 2015 20:59:34 GMT -6
I was going over playoff scenarios in my head earlier this week. I'll keep them to myself until we are in the midst of that four game win streak. Unless something changes dramatically we aren't a playoff team. We just need to get better, and i think we are. Certainly on defense we are better. Building football programs is hard to do, and usually takes time, and a lot of it. That's why i'm just going to keep it to myself until this team hits a four game win streak haha.
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Post by Yotes on Sept 17, 2015 21:02:42 GMT -6
MVFC this week:
Drake @ USD 2PM SE MO State @ Indiana State 2PM UND @ NDSU 2:30 PM St Francis (PA) @ Youngstown State 3PM Western Illinois @ Coastal Carolina 5PM Illinois State @ Eastern Illinois 6PM Missouri State @ Arkansas State 6PM UNI @ Cal Poly 9:30PM
I am surprised to see Missouri State playing another FBS team this season. The payout is nice and higher competition is good for your team, but two FBS foes in one season is not the mark of a healthy FCS program.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Sept 17, 2015 22:25:20 GMT -6
I was going over playoff scenarios in my head earlier this week. I'll keep them to myself until we are in the midst of that four game win streak. Unless something changes dramatically we aren't a playoff team. We just need to get better, and i think we are. Certainly on defense we are better. Building football programs is hard to do, and usually takes time, and a lot of it. Most good coaches usually get quick results. Whether a coach/program is going to be good or not can start to be determined after the first year but definately by the end of year 3. It doesn't take 5-10 years to tell whether something is going to work out or not and also does not take that long to build up a program either. For an incoming and promising administration to come in and build a good program at max would take 3 years to accomplish. If there is weeding out to be done it can be done in that time span. When Glenn had an unsuccessful first year that was already a good indicator and a forecaster of things to come. When Glenn came on and kept Beschorner as OC that was the first tell tale sign that he didn't have a vision of what he wanted to do to have a successful program. Instead it was more about a coach that had been out of the business and unprepared to get back in the business. He should have had his own guys that he wanted to have by his side. When he kept Wes he made the easy and convenient decision and that still haunting the Coyotes today. He kept an OC that was never qualified to be in his position in the first place. These are the types of things and decisions that simply cannot happen to have a successful program. Can improvement happen? I think maybe marginally it can but I don't see this program as it is now being able to compete with the top level Valley programs any time soon. Could I be proven wrong, yes. Will I be proven wrong, I doubt it.
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Post by Yotes on Sept 20, 2015 9:29:08 GMT -6
Results in the MVFC this week:
Drake 0 - USD 52 SE MO State 28 - Indiana State 29 UND 9 - NDSU 34 St Francis (PA) 3 - Youngstown 48 Western Illinois 27 - Coastal Carolina 34 Missouri State 7 - Arkansas State 70 Illinois State 34 - Eastern Illinois 31 UNI 34 - Cal Poly 20
I am impressed to see that Western Illinois was actually leading Coastal Carolina (#1 ranked team in the FCS, going FBS in the coming years) in the fourth quarter in their own stadium. I think WIU may be much improved over what they have been the last few years.
Youngstown State showed up against their inferior opponent this week for a huge win, looking nothing like they did last week.
UNI just rolled over Cal Poly in their home opener. They look to be a very tough team again this year.
Missouri State looks to be utter garbage this year. They lost to their AAC/Sun Belt FBS opponents 63-7 and 70-7, then squeaked out a 21-13 victory over D2 Chadron State. At this point I'm expecting a victory over these guys when they come to the Dome.
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Post by fightsd on Sept 23, 2015 14:00:03 GMT -6
Unless something changes dramatically we aren't a playoff team. We just need to get better, and i think we are. Certainly on defense we are better. Building football programs is hard to do, and usually takes time, and a lot of it. Most good coaches usually get quick results. Whether a coach/program is going to be good or not can start to be determined after the first year but definately by the end of year 3. This shows how uninformed you truly are about the football program. Joe shows up in January of 2013 and walks into a program that was doomed before Ed even knew he was fired. You could've hired Mike Ditka and he wouldn't have had a chance of winning in the situation Joe was put in. This isn't a basketball team, as much as you'd like it to be. You can't bring in 1 or 2 transfer guys and turn a program around. I too am very happy with the Craig Smith hire, but it's a 100% completely different situation. Building a football program takes time, hell the veteran players leading this team are still Ed's recruits. Finally, we see a glimpse of something from the football program and you have nothing better to do than try and knock them back down. I'm going to echo some other posters and ask you to please stay away from the dome until after the season. I'll look for you sitting behind the bench, rubbing Craig Smith's shoulders when basketball season rolls around.
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jackjd
Senior Member
Posts: 653
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Post by jackjd on Sept 23, 2015 19:09:53 GMT -6
One relatively minor correction: Coach Glenn named the new head coach in December, 2011.
I watched parts of the Drake game and thought the Coyotes did a nice job in many aspects of the game. Bourma is a very good running back. His line was doing a good job opening running lanes. There may not be much separating any of the MVFC teams this season. Teams with losing records in the MVFC will still be some of the top FCS teams in the country.
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Post by fightsd on Sept 24, 2015 6:46:24 GMT -6
One relatively minor correction: Coach Glenn named the new head coach in December, 2011. I watched parts of the Drake game and thought the Coyotes did a nice job in many aspects of the game. Bourma is a very good running back. His line was doing a good job opening running lanes. There may not be much separating any of the MVFC teams this season. Teams with losing records in the MVFC will still be some of the top FCS teams in the country. Thanks jackjd. Mis-typed. Meant to say 2012. Agree on the conference top to bottom.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Sept 24, 2015 18:20:31 GMT -6
Most good coaches usually get quick results. Whether a coach/program is going to be good or not can start to be determined after the first year but definately by the end of year 3. This shows how uninformed you truly are about the football program. Joe shows up in January of 2013 and walks into a program that was doomed before Ed even knew he was fired. You could've hired Mike Ditka and he wouldn't have had a chance of winning in the situation Joe was put in. This isn't a basketball team, as much as you'd like it to be. You can't bring in 1 or 2 transfer guys and turn a program around. I too am very happy with the Craig Smith hire, but it's a 100% completely different situation. Building a football program takes time, hell the veteran players leading this team are still Ed's recruits. Finally, we see a glimpse of something from the football program and you have nothing better to do than try and knock them back down. I'm going to echo some other posters and ask you to please stay away from the dome until after the season. I'll look for you sitting behind the bench, rubbing Craig Smith's shoulders when basketball season rolls around. "uniformed about the football program". How much more informed than 3-18 in the MVFC does one need to be. The record speaks for itself and no amount of sugar coated commentary is going to change that record. It is a very weak excuse to give Glenn a pass for insinuating that he had to take over some kind of a dumpster fire left by Ed that even the best of coaches couldn't have fixed. That is complete hogwash. Ed needed to go (and IMO because of football reasons more than personal reasons) but even he would have been able to guide the Coyotes to a better record than 3-18. I will agree that he left an undisciplined group of players behind but he proved over the years that he was able to get good talent into Vermillion. It was just raw talent that wasn't coached up to it's potential when it came to player development and X's and O's. The program wasn't to the point of being non fixable especially in year 3 of Glenn's tenure. This last 3 years is on Joe Glenn not on Ed Meierkort. Saying any different is simply being in denial. When new coaches come into a program they are naturally going to be coming into undesirable situations in some facet. The good coaches get the most out of what they have. regardless of what Glenn does before he is done as football coach he should not get a free pass on the first 3 years. Joe Glenn and the Coyotes are off to a good start this year and it appears that the team is ready to break out of it and start to play winning football. The path that this team will do down is yet to be determined especially considering the history of the team breaking down and regressing throughout each of the past 3 seasons. Does this years team feel different? I think an argument can definately be made that it does feel different and that things will go down a completely different path (than last year) from here on out but the team still needs to prove they are for real in the conference season. The Missouri Valley has been and still is the large elephant in the room. This team needs to prove that they will get better as the season goes on and will overcome the grind of the Valley instead of letting the grind overcome them. Forgive me for needing to see a little more sustained success before I start punching the Coyotes ticket to the playoffs. I am very interested to see how the Youngstown game turns out. If the Yotes go out and beat Youngstown and follow it up with a win at Western Illinois than belief will start to sink into these bones. Until than I will remain skeptical and that is a very fair standpoint to take.
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Post by Yotes on Sept 24, 2015 19:54:59 GMT -6
I really don't feel like going through the work of defending Joe Glenn to you, it wouldn't take anyways. I'll just say that I hope your tune does change soon.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Sept 24, 2015 21:12:49 GMT -6
I really don't feel like going through the work of defending Joe Glenn to you, it wouldn't take anyways. I'll just say that I hope your tune does change soon. Go ahead and defend away but just remember I use wins and losses as the main measuring devise as to determining success not how many times he sings the school song in public or how nice of a guy he is. I will never question Joe Glenn's character, I just fairly question the job performance which should be the only fair way to judge a football program.
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Post by yoteforever on Sept 24, 2015 21:20:44 GMT -6
This shows how uninformed you truly are about the football program. Joe shows up in January of 2013 and walks into a program that was doomed before Ed even knew he was fired. You could've hired Mike Ditka and he wouldn't have had a chance of winning in the situation Joe was put in. This isn't a basketball team, as much as you'd like it to be. You can't bring in 1 or 2 transfer guys and turn a program around. I too am very happy with the Craig Smith hire, but it's a 100% completely different situation. Building a football program takes time, hell the veteran players leading this team are still Ed's recruits. Finally, we see a glimpse of something from the football program and you have nothing better to do than try and knock them back down. I'm going to echo some other posters and ask you to please stay away from the dome until after the season. I'll look for you sitting behind the bench, rubbing Craig Smith's shoulders when basketball season rolls around. "uniformed about the football program". How much more informed than 3-18 in the MVFC does one need to be. The record speaks for itself and no amount of sugar coated commentary is going to change that record. It is a very weak excuse to give Glenn a pass for insinuating that he had to take over some kind of a dumpster fire left by Ed that even the best of coaches couldn't have fixed. That is complete hogwash. Ed needed to go (and IMO because of football reasons more than personal reasons) but even he would have been able to guide the Coyotes to a better record than 3-18. I will agree that he left an undisciplined group of players behind but he proved over the years that he was able to get good talent into Vermillion. It was just raw talent that wasn't coached up to it's potential when it came to player development and X's and O's. The program wasn't to the point of being non fixable especially in year 3 of Glenn's tenure. This last 3 years is on Joe Glenn not on Ed Meierkort. Saying any different is simply being in denial. When new coaches come into a program they are naturally going to be coming into undesirable situations in some facet. The good coaches get the most out of what they have. regardless of what Glenn does before he is done as football coach he should not get a free pass on the first 3 years. Joe Glenn and the Coyotes are off to a good start this year and it appears that the team is ready to break out of it and start to play winning football. The path that this team will do down is yet to be determined especially considering the history of the team breaking down and regressing throughout each of the past 3 seasons. Does this years team feel different? I think an argument can definately be made that it does feel different and that things will go down a completely different path (than last year) from here on out but the team still needs to prove they are for real in the conference season. The Missouri Valley has been and still is the large elephant in the room. This team needs to prove that they will get better as the season goes on and will overcome the grind of the Valley instead of letting the grind overcome them. Forgive me for needing to see a little more sustained success before I start punching the Coyotes ticket to the playoffs. I am very interested to see how the Youngstown game turns out. If the Yotes go out and beat Youngstown and follow it up with a win at Western Illinois than belief will start to sink into these bones. Until than I will remain skeptical and that is a very fair standpoint to take. CoyoteSlayer, No one can argue the results with you because they are what they are. But if you would go back when you kend the charge on firing Meierkort, you were somewhat giddy with the hiring of Coach Glenn. I told you then, and I'll tell you now that firing set back our program 3-5 years. It's a fact. I said it then, and I'm saying it now. That firing killed us. If you FIRE Coach Glenn, instead of letting it play out, forget about winning till 2020. That also is a fact. Lastly, before you're on board, they need to be 4-1. Quite frankly, if they are, stay home on Saturdays. If I pount you out to these kids, they'll tear you apart limb by limb. You are not a Coyote fan. You're not, so please quit acting like one. You once threatened to switch to the Jacks. I say do it. You never have a solution, only bitch and complain . Let me introduce you to Keyon Lage...I'm sure you'd get to know each other quick. Stay away. Go to Brookings. Wear blue and yellow, just please don't tell people you're a Coyote.
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