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Post by Coyote Fan on Dec 13, 2015 19:51:47 GMT -6
What good is stability if that stability is consistently losing. In the case of Wes his stability is the consistency of running a struggling offense. Wes has been around multiple coaches both as a player and a coach and still doesn't "get it" when it comes to running an offense. Wes played under Glen Caruso. Doesn't he remember what that offense was like when Glen was the coach and he was the quarterback. It's like he hasn't learned a thing about how that offense worked. You'd think he would take alot of characteristics of that offense under Caruso and use it for his own offenses. Wes was a major part of that success when he was a QB that is why it is so puzzling that he just doesn't seemed to grasp how to coach an offense. If he can't run an effective offense how is he going to run a MVFC football program.
No matter how much one wants to credit or discredit Deboer it can't be denied that he as head coach got it done. Sure he took over a program that was handed over to him by Bob Young but he made that team better than Bob ever had it. Young was nowhere near as dominant as Kalen was.
I also would like to hear of more candidates then 3. Seems like USD is short sited if they don't have at least 5-10 very good candidates that could take over the program.
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Post by Cousin Eddie on Dec 13, 2015 20:14:45 GMT -6
People are putting WAY too much stock into a report from footballscoop.com. That site hits 50% at best.
I have heard from people that DeBoer didn't even get an interview. The interview story was a rumor. Search firms vet tons of candidate. Very few get actual interviews. That info is not and should not be public knowledge.
The AD is doing their job at a high level. This is why a bunch of message board folks don't know what is going on.
Save the criticisms about what the AD should or shouldn't have done until after the hire has been made.
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Post by dklemme on Dec 13, 2015 20:37:15 GMT -6
Wes played under Glen Caruso. Doesn't he remember what that offense was like when Glen was the coach and he was the quarterback. It's like he hasn't learned a thing about how that offense worked. You'd think he would take alot of characteristics of that offense under Caruso and use it for his own offenses. Wes was a major part of that success when he was a QB that is why it is so puzzling that he just doesn't seemed to grasp how to coach an offense. If he can't run an effective offense how is he going to run a MVFC football program. I don't disagree with you. The Yotes were also D2 at the time. Different people, different time, different schedule. It's not all the X's and O's. Between a D2 and D1aa schedule is huge. Bigger, faster, stronger athletes and a lot of strong coaches with something to prove if the want to move up or take over a program. We need a staff who can recruit the $h!t out of the area. Minneapolis to KC, Denver to Chicago. A Texas link wouldn't be bad either. When you have better athletes than the teams you go against and better coaches coaching them, winning should take care of itself. The scheme doesn't matter. |
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Post by Coyote Fan on Dec 13, 2015 20:55:05 GMT -6
Wes played under Glen Caruso. Doesn't he remember what that offense was like when Glen was the coach and he was the quarterback. It's like he hasn't learned a thing about how that offense worked. You'd think he would take alot of characteristics of that offense under Caruso and use it for his own offenses. Wes was a major part of that success when he was a QB that is why it is so puzzling that he just doesn't seemed to grasp how to coach an offense. If he can't run an effective offense how is he going to run a MVFC football program. I don't disagree with you. The Yotes were also D2 at the time. Different people, different time, different schedule. It's not all the X's and O's. Between a D2 and D1aa schedule is huge. Bigger, faster, stronger athletes and a lot of strong coaches with something to prove if the want to move up or take over a program. We need a staff who can recruit the $h!t out of the area. Minneapolis to KC, Denver to Chicago. A Texas link wouldn't be bad either. When you have better athletes than the teams you go against and better coaches coaching them, winning should take care of itself. The scheme doesn't matter. and I don't disagree with you either but how realistic is it going to be for USD to out recruit NDSU or even programs such as SDSU, Illinois State or Youngstown. Even if USD steps up their recruiting it would likely be just to get on an even level with the other Valley programs. What is maybe a little easier is to have the coaches, primarily the Head Coach, OC and DC be able to outcoach those other teams with even or more talent then you. I will say that good coaches can make up for a slight talent disadvantage moreso than a slight talent advantage can win out with poorer overall coaching. That is why I think this coaching search is vital, more so than getting a leg up in recruiting. The coach is like the president of the United States and the recruits are like the Congressmen. It takes so many good parts to make an effective Congress. It just takes one damn good president to lead the entire country and to have at least equal power to the Congress. All the greatest athletes in the nation can't be that great if they have no sense of purpose or direction like a good head coach can give. A good head coach can take average athletes and make them one hell of a cohesive unit. What USD needs is the best possible package deal of a HC, OC and DC. If the head coach is good but the other parts are not it may not matter. If the other parts are there but there is no good head coach that might not matter either. If we can get all 3 that are talented coaches than it could be the start of something great. |
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Post by yoteforever on Dec 13, 2015 22:20:33 GMT -6
CF, a few weeks ago you were on record as saying that we could hire a top notche'd coach that could recruit on par with those schools around us and now your tune is changing. I'm not attacking you, I'm simply pointing out things that were said when you were wanting Glenn to retire or be forced out. You and others stated that issues such as the one year contract wouldn't make a difference. I argued with you on that, and you're all finding out that the list of candidates that would be so much better than what we had with Glenn and we're isn't quite as long as you thought.
Whether Nielsen comes or not, the reason many of you are frustrated that we haven't hired anyone yet, or the list isn't 10 miles long of people that would "jump" at the opportunity are because of the very issues I raised 6 weeks ago. They are roadblocks. The pool of talent wanting to take a job with one year contracts, and a facility that needs serious upgrades just isn't that deep. I'm not sure how many people have been contacted by the search firm but I'm guessing many. And I do know of one that declined the opportunity to interview because of the one year contract. Joe Glenn is 100% Coyote, so he took the job because he knew the layout of the land and was secure in the job. He also was financially secure, so he took less salary so his assistants could get more. That reveals the true charecter of the man. Did he make some mistakes? Yep, and he will admit that. But he indeed left the program stronger than when he started.
Regarding Nielsen, if he comes, it is a home run hire. This would be his last job, and he is building WIU the right way. The foundation is being laid. Now if he doesn't accept, I will tell you why I could not support DeBoer. Yes, he won at the NAIA level. But he should've. Google what his budget was compared to every team he played, both league, out of league, and in the playoffs. The CLOSEST one was half, and that one school. Then when they annouced they were going D2, he bailed. He didn't want to associate himself with what he thought would happen....getting beat. So he joins Dale Lennon at SIU, and what happens when things got a little hairy in Carbondale, he bailed out the on the coach that hired him and counted on him. His performance as OC there wasn't impressive at all. He was a part of Lennons demise, but bailed out before he went down. And to go where? Eastern Michigan who has won 3 friggin games in 2 years, and his offense is deplorable. I will not support a coach that handles adversity or potential adversity as he does. I don't know the man from Adam, but I do "get" his character. It's me first. We aren't NAIA.
I haven't met Stugert either, but the man did embrace the D2 move. And he's won. I can respect that. And Caruso knows how to BUILD a program, he's done it twice. And now he's playing for a national championship. He's innovative, and he knows how to coach. I could support him.
No matter what anyone thinks, our administration is doing what they can to nail down the best option we have. I believe in them. And lastly for those that think Nielsen wouldn't be a great hire, in my opinion, don't understand what it takes to build a contender year after year. I thought we had a chance with him, but my guess is the one year contract has been a stumbling block. Maybe President Abbott can get the regents to change their policy.
A DeBoer hire would be wrong for many reasons.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Dec 13, 2015 22:53:52 GMT -6
CF, a few weeks ago you were on record as saying that we could hire a top notche'd coach that could recruit on par with those schools around us and now your tune is changing. I'm not attacking you, I'm simply pointing out things that were said when you were wanting Glenn to retire or be forced out. You and others stated that issues such as the one year contract wouldn't make a difference. I argued with you on that, and you're all finding out that the list of candidates that would be so much better than what we had with Glenn and we're isn't quite as long as you thought. Why don't you quote where I said what you say I said. Of course recruiting is important. I don't think you will ever find a quote where I said recruiting wasn't important. Never have I thought recruiting wasn't important and I still think recruiting is important. I just think we need a coach that can take whatever talent he has and make it a cohesive unit and be able to win with it. Does anyone think we will honestly out recruit NDSU. In the midwest I don't think we will but perhaps in other parts of the country we can. The fact is that USD is not going to out recruit the State Universities and possibly other Valley programs as well. We would need a 3-5 year record of success at minimum to be able to be on par with recruiting with those other schools. I don't consider 3-5 in the Valley as successful so we are going to need to do much better on the field than what Glenn produced in his 4 years. To me it's more likely to find a coach that can out coach SDSU and NDSU than be able to out talent them. We need a coach and staff that can recruit well but more importantly we need a coaching staff that will put our talent in position to win on the field and a staff that is very good at player development. For arguments sake lets say we recruit well but our talent is still sightly behind what the NDSU's, UNI's and Illinois State's have. If we scheme as a Missouri Valley team we might well end up losing because we are doing exactly what they are doing with less talent. Basically USD tried to run through teams instead of figuring out a way to run around them or pass around and over them. If USD is substancially less talented it probably won't matter what they do but if USD is just slightly behind in talent there are ways to make up for that schematically. Don't try to over power them but instead out think them. USD tried to overpower teams in the past but wasn't able to all the time. What they couldn't turn to was a way to out think them. We need a coach that can out think the opponents first and then try to out recruit them second. The out thinking part is easier to accomplish than the out talenting part. |
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usdgc
Freshman Member
Posts: 2 
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Post by usdgc on Dec 13, 2015 23:10:19 GMT -6
Saint Glenn
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Post by Coyote Fan on Dec 13, 2015 23:13:47 GMT -6
Yoteforever,
It's interesting how with Deboer that you say he bailed on his teams or coaches. Well didn't Nielsen bail on Minnesota Duluth or didn't Glenn bail on Northern Colorado and Montana. How about we call it career advancement. What's fair to one should be fair to all. I seriously doubt you would not support Deboer if he was hired. I also don't see how a Deboer hire would be wrong for so many reasons. I know 67-3 talks very loud in my book.
If Deboer came in and won at USD no one would talk about his personality. It's only when a coach struggles when things like his personality somehow suddenly becomes important. I could see it right now. Yoteforever is in the stands. Deboer is coach and the Coyotes kick the game winning field goal to beat South Dakota State at the gun to win the Valley. The entire Dakota dome is standing up absolutely losing it but Yoteforever is not happy because of Deboer's personality and decides not to cheer because of a character flaw. I guarantee you Yoteforever that you would not care about a coaches personality if they were winning games.
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Post by Coyote Fan on Dec 13, 2015 23:18:41 GMT -6
I think you mean Mr. six and twenty-six |
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Post by Yotes on Dec 13, 2015 23:40:24 GMT -6
I think you mean Mr. six and twenty-six Glenn Caruso. The guy at St Thomas that you are in love with... |
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Post by fightsd on Dec 14, 2015 8:07:05 GMT -6
I think you mean Mr. six and twenty-six Ha. He was talking about Caruso. Good work CF. |
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Post by yoteforever on Dec 14, 2015 8:21:02 GMT -6
Yoteforever, It's interesting how with Deboer that you say he bailed on his teams or coaches. Well didn't Nielsen bail on Minnesota Duluth or didn't Glenn bail on Northern Colorado and Montana. How about we call it career advancement. What's fair to one should be fair to all. I seriously doubt you would not support Deboer if he was hired. I also don't see how a Deboer hire would be wrong for so many reasons. I know 67-3 talks very loud in my book. If Deboer came in and won at USD no one would talk about his personality. It's only when a coach struggles when things like his personality somehow suddenly becomes important. I could see it right now. Yoteforever is in the stands. Deboer is coach and the Coyotes kick the game winning field goal to beat South Dakota State at the gun to win the Valley. The entire Dakota dome is standing up absolutely losing it but Yoteforever is not happy because of Deboer's personality and decides not to cheer because of a character flaw. I guarantee you Yoteforever that you would not care about a coaches personality if they were winning games. First of all CF, as I stated in my post, I am not attacking you, I'm merely pointing out a couple of things you thought were slam dunks that just aren't so. Man up when someone points that out. However, you have chosen to attack me by your hypothetical situation in your second paragraph. Here's the difference, by your own admission, between you and I. In your hypothetical situation, knowing I would be opposed to the DeBoer hiring, still had me in the stands. That's clearly a difference between you and I, and quite frankly defines why we think so different. I would be there even if DeBoer was hired. You wouldn't be there unless they win. Now, the other thing said in your post was I was taking the position I did because of his personality. That's not what I said. I have never even met the man. I referenced his charecter and integrity. You have stated before you don't really care about that as long as we win. That's your choice. And I understand it. But simply put, I don't agree with it. Character counts. It's the driving reason Ed was let go. Lastly, I do uderstand your focus on hiring a coach that has won ,or dominated using your words. DeBoer did dominate, but I also raised a fact regarding his budget vs the competition that put him on not a level playground. In defense of him, he got it done, but his budget when he comes to USD will not be such. It will be on par with the rest of the league. So from an administrative staffs position, it's fair to ask if he has the tools to win on par with everyone else. He proved in NAIA he can do that. He proved at the next level he wasn't "dominate". In fact, he was below par. So in my eyes, he isn't anywhere near a slam dunk hire. Just my opinion, but please give others on here with views, that have some knowledge of the game, the same respect you ask others to give you. This is a big hire. We don't play NAIA. That's the issue I would have with Caruso. But, all things being equal, Caruso has set himself apart due to the fact he built Macalester from the ashes, and resurrected St Thomas football. But it's still D3. Stugert has built SF into a D2 DAMNED good team. Not dominate, but good. And good is good. In my opinion, he trumps DeBoer. |
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Post by nccyote on Dec 14, 2015 8:41:11 GMT -6
So with what know now, how would everyone rank the candidates that have been mentioned, or even unmentioned for that matter? He is my top 5 in order:
1. Bob Neilson
2. Glenn Caruso
3. Tim Polasek (OC at NDSU)
4. Jed Stugart
5. Kalen DeBoer
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Post by GoYotes on Dec 14, 2015 11:02:51 GMT -6
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Post by Yote 53 on Dec 14, 2015 11:07:50 GMT -6
Herbie got his man.
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