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Post by kiyoat on Mar 21, 2023 14:53:43 GMT -6
Speaking of injuries, could we be doing something different from a strength and conditioning perspective to prevent ACL injuries? I know that women are more prone to that in the sport of basketball, but it seems like an epidemic at this point. Hopefully someone is looking into that....  |
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Post by usdcoyote on Mar 21, 2023 16:20:18 GMT -6
You have the theory a little wrong. She wasn't intentionally recruiting down to stick it to USD, she just wasn't recruiting as hard as she had because she knew she would be leaving after the big 3 graduated. That's the theory that was out there. Dawn knew we would be really good last year and knew she would have opportunities so she wasn't exactly motivated to pound that recruiting trail and it showed. Then she left and actively recruited the two starters that we had coming back. Even though those may be the facts I have no ill will towards dawn. She did great things while at usd and she left for a job that could pay her a lot more. As others have mentioned it's not her job to help USD continue future success. It would have been great if she did, but not really her job. If I knew I was probably leaving a place I too would probably have a hard time really trying to talk kids into coming to play at the place I was leaving. I mean...come on. So if the theory was that she was going to leave after the three seniors left, was that plan in place for 2021 or did she amend that plan when Covid gave them another year (and for Hannah that wasn't certain until the summer of 2021 when she decided to play another year at USD and have an ankle surgery/procedure)? So the "not recruiting as hard" part, that was after the Larkins/Duffney/Carson class was recruited? Larkins is on pace to be a top-10 player at USD and while Duffney has a ways to go defensively, she showed excellent athleticism and scoring ability after not playing in games for 2 years. So did that begin with the Demers/Bergstrom class? Demers was offered by UND, NDSU, and SDSU. All state universities that were closer to her home. Bergstrom seems well-regarded. Kayla certainly implied she was going to play quite a bit this season before her injury. Then it must've begun with the 2023 class...you know, the one we haven't seen yet. Klosterbuer seems very excited to play at USD (accepted the offer after 5 days) but I would guess the culture the program (and Dawn) established had something to do with that. Broughton was a big get in recruiting, though we'll obviously have to see how she will recover after tearing both ACL's. The broader point here is that for WBB, recruiting is so far out into the future. If you want to criticize 2023 or that SDSU has five SD verbals for 2024, fine. But that had nothing to do with last year. And the recruiting classes before that don't back up that theory. Also, this "theory" seems to not take into account that if I remember correctly a year ago, by the time the Yotes were done, WVU was the only P5 job still open. What would have happened if WVU hadn't been interested in Dawn? It takes two to tango. She probably would have stayed for last year. Sorry for the snark, I'm in a bit of a mood this morning. 🙂 You're absolutely right about recruiting being done far in the future for division 1. So if Dawn really was giving lack of effort it would not probably show up this year or maybe even next year. It would be the class of 2024. You know the class that we got our ass kicked on for every in-state recruit against South Dakota state. I know some families that have girls on that attack team and when I asked why none of them were going to USD they all said it was because usd was showing very little interest, so take that for what it's worth. Or maybe Dawn's recruiting efforts just happened to really start to fall short right at the height of our success. And maybe those families just pretended USD wasn't showing a lot of interest when really they were. Either way I'm just real thankful for the success dawn had while she was here. Hope she does well at Minnesota. |
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Post by marco on Mar 21, 2023 18:29:57 GMT -6
We got whipped by state in the 24 class for any SD talent . We got a good girl out of Wisconsin and have a couple offers for 2 out of state girls. Looks like we are working hard for girls in the 25 and 26 class. so we will be fine
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90yote
Senior Member
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Post by 90yote on Mar 21, 2023 20:38:53 GMT -6
I mean...come on. So if the theory was that she was going to leave after the three seniors left, was that plan in place for 2021 or did she amend that plan when Covid gave them another year (and for Hannah that wasn't certain until the summer of 2021 when she decided to play another year at USD and have an ankle surgery/procedure)? So the "not recruiting as hard" part, that was after the Larkins/Duffney/Carson class was recruited? Larkins is on pace to be a top-10 player at USD and while Duffney has a ways to go defensively, she showed excellent athleticism and scoring ability after not playing in games for 2 years. So did that begin with the Demers/Bergstrom class? Demers was offered by UND, NDSU, and SDSU. All state universities that were closer to her home. Bergstrom seems well-regarded. Kayla certainly implied she was going to play quite a bit this season before her injury. Then it must've begun with the 2023 class...you know, the one we haven't seen yet. Klosterbuer seems very excited to play at USD (accepted the offer after 5 days) but I would guess the culture the program (and Dawn) established had something to do with that. Broughton was a big get in recruiting, though we'll obviously have to see how she will recover after tearing both ACL's. The broader point here is that for WBB, recruiting is so far out into the future. If you want to criticize 2023 or that SDSU has five SD verbals for 2024, fine. But that had nothing to do with last year. And the recruiting classes before that don't back up that theory. Also, this "theory" seems to not take into account that if I remember correctly a year ago, by the time the Yotes were done, WVU was the only P5 job still open. What would have happened if WVU hadn't been interested in Dawn? It takes two to tango. She probably would have stayed for last year. Sorry for the snark, I'm in a bit of a mood this morning. 🙂 You're absolutely right about recruiting being done far in the future for division 1. So if Dawn really was giving lack of effort it would not probably show up this year or maybe even next year. It would be the class of 2024. You know the class that we got our ass kicked on for every in-state recruit against South Dakota state. I know some families that have girls on that attack team and when I asked why none of them were going to USD they all said it was because usd was showing very little interest, so take that for what it's worth. Or maybe Dawn's recruiting efforts just happened to really start to fall short right at the height of our success. And maybe those families just pretended USD wasn't showing a lot of interest when really they were. Either way I'm just real thankful for the success dawn had while she was here. Hope she does well at Minnesota. The theory then assumes that Dawn didn't pursue these 5 players because she knew she was out the door. You may be right. But that IS a big assumption. There are other reasons why a coach may not pursue a player. I know they offered Fox and Sheppard. Don't know what interest they showed in the others. And Dunn and Shepard committed after Dawn left. Dawn also made the effort to ask Demers to reclassify last spring. |
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Post by marco on Mar 22, 2023 11:06:28 GMT -6
She did well but didn't have any 24 class signed . Shepard decided to follow her AAU team mates to state. It was the plan to redshirt Demers but we only had 8 players with injuries and transfers. Injuries happen no mater who is the coach. One think yote fans though Demers had a good freshman year and are excited about her future
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Post by elcoyote on Mar 22, 2023 12:17:54 GMT -6
I think the mere thought that coach P recruited down for USD...is absolutely ridiculous in my mind. I don't think that woman was/is capable of doing anything half ass or malicious towards any team she is in control of. That woman is in the business of basketball...period! Winning basketball!! If coach P had stayed, USD definitely wouldn't have lost Watson and possibly not Krull. I don't think there would have been the rash of injuries, different style of coaching. But, of course that is only my opinion and should be taken as such. With coach P and staff, strong healthy seniors, experienced sweet sixteen underclass young ladies...this team would have looked much much different. However, it was not meant to be. We move on, redevelop and prepare to play at a higher level in the years to come. Never look back, blame or second guess. Instead, move on, support and get better. As many of you know, I am on this board because I have an interest in Demers and I won't hide it. That kid had offers from schools other then the four in ND and SD. She however developed a relationship with P early on and that led to her falling in love with the school and community, much to parents dismay lol. That love couldn't be broken by P's offer to follow her to West Virginia even. I wish Demers could have been coached by P. I wish she could have red shirted this past year. But again, it was not meant to be. The kid is a high achiever with an unstoppable work ethic, I do not question if she will get better. Too bad she had to waste her freshman year though. I don't think the rash of injuries had anything to do with the coach nor do I think she "wasted" her freshman year. |
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Post by yotewannabe on Mar 22, 2023 16:42:52 GMT -6
I think the mere thought that coach P recruited down for USD...is absolutely ridiculous in my mind. I don't think that woman was/is capable of doing anything half ass or malicious towards any team she is in control of. That woman is in the business of basketball...period! Winning basketball!! If coach P had stayed, USD definitely wouldn't have lost Watson and possibly not Krull. I don't think there would have been the rash of injuries, different style of coaching. But, of course that is only my opinion and should be taken as such. With coach P and staff, strong healthy seniors, experienced sweet sixteen underclass young ladies...this team would have looked much much different. However, it was not meant to be. We move on, redevelop and prepare to play at a higher level in the years to come. Never look back, blame or second guess. Instead, move on, support and get better. As many of you know, I am on this board because I have an interest in Demers and I won't hide it. That kid had offers from schools other then the four in ND and SD. She however developed a relationship with P early on and that led to her falling in love with the school and community, much to parents dismay lol. That love couldn't be broken by P's offer to follow her to West Virginia even. I wish Demers could have been coached by P. I wish she could have red shirted this past year. But again, it was not meant to be. The kid is a high achiever with an unstoppable work ethic, I do not question if she will get better. Too bad she had to waste her freshman year though. It’s a huge stretch to say that a coaching style leads to injuries first of all. And second some of these injuries were lingering injuries from last year. I will say that the amount of acl injuries we are seeing these days is alarming. Especially when you consider the awareness around preventative measures. Even starting to see an uptick in boys/men acl injuries. Genetics plays a huge factor, but I believe the fact that our athletes keep getting stronger, faster, and more explosive may too. Along with better surface playing areas and shoes with better traction. But never have I felt it’s a coaches coaching style. IMO |
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Post by Men's League Waterboy on Mar 22, 2023 18:28:18 GMT -6
Orthopedic injuries are going to happen on basketball courts, particularly lower body, and there’s not much anybody’s gonna do about it. It’s just a price for playing, unfortunately.
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Post by elcoyote on Mar 22, 2023 19:37:21 GMT -6
Personally, with all the summer and spring AAU hoops along with the regular season these kids now play, not to mention personal training sessions in some cases, I think some of these kids play too much basketball at the expense of other athletic endeavors. Too much stress is put on the knees especially given that players will be going through growth spurts at this time in their lives. Try some other sports and balance your body out, or there's certainly nothing wrong with going to the park, gym, or driveway, setting your goals as to makes/attempts and putting in your work to get your shot down. Might even more productive than playing in an AAU game where you might get limited shots per game. I don't think that shooters now are any better than they were in the past. Of course, I may be biased though since I live in the past, but I happen to like it there. The head trainer at a major college told me a few years backs that he sees 19-year-old players coming in with 50-year-old knees.
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jmgg
Sophomore Member
Posts: 110
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Post by jmgg on Mar 23, 2023 8:11:31 GMT -6
Personally, with all the summer and spring AAU hoops along with the regular season these kids now play, not to mention personal training sessions in some cases, I think some of these kids play too much basketball at the expense of other athletic endeavors. Too much stress is put on the knees especially given that players will be going through growth spurts at this time in their lives. Try some other sports and balance your body out, or there's certainly nothing wrong with going to the park, gym, or driveway, setting your goals as to makes/attempts and putting in your work to get your shot down. Might even more productive than playing in an AAU game where you might get limited shots per game. I don't think that shooters now are any better than they were in the past. Of course, I may be biased though since I live in the past, but I happen to like it there. The head trainer at a major college told me a few years backs that he sees 19-year-old players coming in with 50-year-old knees. I can't agree with you more, and it's not just basketball players. It's other sports as well. Coaches in colleges AND high schools expect total adherence to their sport every day, year around. These kids are over-structured where it's difficult to have any other life outside of their sport. Just one high school or college can't change this. Something needs to come down from the states (for high school) and the governing bodies (for college) to rein this in a little. Sorry to get off topic a little here, but I wanted to ditto your post. |
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Post by soofooyote on Mar 23, 2023 8:26:04 GMT -6
Personally, with all the summer and spring AAU hoops along with the regular season these kids now play, not to mention personal training sessions in some cases, I think some of these kids play too much basketball at the expense of other athletic endeavors. Too much stress is put on the knees especially given that players will be going through growth spurts at this time in their lives. Try some other sports and balance your body out, or there's certainly nothing wrong with going to the park, gym, or driveway, setting your goals as to makes/attempts and putting in your work to get your shot down. Might even more productive than playing in an AAU game where you might get limited shots per game. I don't think that shooters now are any better than they were in the past. Of course, I may be biased though since I live in the past, but I happen to like it there. The head trainer at a major college told me a few years backs that he sees 19-year-old players coming in with 50-year-old knees. I can't agree with you more, and it's not just basketball players. It's other sports as well. Coaches in colleges AND high schools expect total adherence to their sport every day, year around. These kids are over-structured where it's difficult to have any other life outside of their sport. Just one high school or college can't change this. Something needs to come down from the states (for high school) and the governing bodies (for college) to rein this in a little. Sorry to get off topic a little here, but I wanted to ditto your post. There's someone else better qualified to do what's right for their kids....their parents. Their parents should be consulting with their medical providers and coaches to determine a proper training load. It shouldn't need to be governed by the state or the NCAA. |
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Post by kiyoat on Mar 23, 2023 9:18:23 GMT -6
I think that over time the data from studies accumulates to a point where it is hard to ignore anymore. There have been some long-term studies on the prevalence of ACL injuries, and what causes them, out there. Probably not enough for the evidence to be irrefutable, but many studies are saying the same things. (this is based on one google search from me, so take it with a big grain of salt). Here is an article that summarizes a long-term study from Australia (2005-2015) I'm guessing it was more of a comprehensive literature review, since they reference multiple other studies: (link) Anterior Cruciate Ligament Injuriessome bullet-points on the findings:A. reported rates of ACL injury in youth athletes doubled in the decade 2005-2015
B. participation in sports is a strong risk factor (duh)
C. activities such as jumping, cutting and pivoting put an athlete at a higher risk (duh)
D. highest risk sports: soccer, football, basketball, skiing, gymnastics
E. female athletes were anywhere from 2.4 to 9.7 times greater risk of injury (depending on the study referenced)
F. There seems to be multiple reasons for the higher risk in females, both structural and neuromuscular. The easiest to understand is that women have wider hips, so the angle of the femur is different.
G. 30% were contact injuries (with another player or object), 70% were non-contact (planting, pivoting, landing)
E. The 4 most common injury situations:
......1. knee twist while foot planted on ground
......2. A sudden landing or cut, while knee in poor alignment
......3. A sudden stop while running
......4. jumping and landing with knee extended (see E. Juhnke)
F. There are preventative conditioning programs that have been implemented and studied extensively. They have been shown to be highly effective. (here's a quote:)G. Athletes can be screened for ACL risk factors, as well.Seems like there are some conditioning and screening tools out there that maybe should be implemented in Coyote high-risk sports, like women's soccer and basketball. I'd add volleyball and football, too. .... Just a thought.... |
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Post by marco on Mar 23, 2023 10:45:24 GMT -6
Kayla addressed this when she spoke in SF. She said this is a nation wide problem and her trainers are doing training to add strength to the knee. Also Dawns top recruit at WV Grace Grocholski out of Wisconsin has declared her recruitment open. I am sure she will go to the Minnesota
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Post by yotenation on Mar 23, 2023 10:45:36 GMT -6
I think that over time the data from studies accumulates to a point where it is hard to ignore anymore. There have been some long-term studies on the prevalence of ACL injuries, and what causes them, out there. Probably not enough for the evidence to be irrefutable, but many studies are saying the same things. (this is based on one google search from me, so take it with a big grain of salt). Here is an article that summarizes a long-term study from Australia (2005-2015) I'm guessing it was more of a comprehensive literature review, since they reference multiple other studies: (link) Anterior Cruciate Ligament Injuriessome bullet-points on the findings:A. reported rates of ACL injury in youth athletes doubled in the decade 2005-2015
B. participation in sports is a strong risk factor (duh)
C. activities such as jumping, cutting and pivoting put an athlete at a higher risk (duh)
D. highest risk sports: soccer, football, basketball, skiing, gymnastics
E. female athletes were anywhere from 2.4 to 9.7 times greater risk of injury (depending on the study referenced)
F. There seems to be multiple reasons for the higher risk in females, both structural and neuromuscular. The easiest to understand is that women have wider hips, so the angle of the femur is different.
G. 30% were contact injuries (with another player or object), 70% were non-contact (planting, pivoting, landing)
E. The 4 most common injury situations:
......1. knee twist while foot planted on ground
......2. A sudden landing or cut, while knee in poor alignment
......3. A sudden stop while running
......4. jumping and landing with knee extended (see E. Juhnke)
F. There are preventative conditioning programs that have been implemented and studied extensively. They have been shown to be highly effective. (here's a quote:)G. Athletes can be screened for ACL risk factors, as well.Seems like there are some conditioning and screening tools out there that maybe should be implemented in Coyote high-risk sports, like women's soccer and basketball. I'd add volleyball and football, too. .... Just a thought.... There are certainly strengthening exercises that can help reduce the risk to a degree. But we should keep in mind it does not eliminate the risk. For all we know, our strength and conditioning staff is already doing those things. |
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Post by kiyoat on Mar 27, 2023 14:36:15 GMT -6
No big surprise here, but Dawn elected to keep all her staff from USD/WVU, likely with raises. One source said her asst coach salary pool will be $525,000.
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